Ran the worst 800 race of my indoor season. What am I doing wrong?

For one thing, 52-53 for relay carry means 53-54 for open, which is insufficient for a 400/800 type to break 2:00.

Expecting to break 2:00 on such mediocre 400 times, light training, low mileage (mileage is only one consideration, but 20 miles in winter is too low for most). How could you not feel "great", as you are hardly doing any work? If you aren't willing to put in the work, stick to the 400 and work on that until you get some maturity and base under you. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie (one reason I love our sport!)

Those splits add to 2:04, so unsure, but could it be possible you went out too hard in the beginning? Focus on making moves on the 2nd and 4th 200. Keep a decent but comfortable pace on 1st and third laps.

OP here. Never thought of it that way huh. I’ve ran one open 400 this season and went 52.6 on a flat. I don’t train the 4 anymore but have ran consistent 50-51s in the open in high school my senior year (outdoor of course)

Thanks for clearing it up. I should definitely talk let my coach know I need more of everything you just mentioned. I am more than willing! I’ve asked for my mileage to be bumped up but that’s only the first part. Need to get some quality workouts in. I have no strength or endurance.

Also, my coaches don’t want me running the 400 anymore because they think I’m better suited in the 800. Also we have many 400 guys on the team way faster than me

(With the decimals of course) that’s on my part. Sorry for the confusion.

when I usually run it I generally have almost even splits. 61, 62. (Most of my races are this way)

I appreciate it!

1) There is no magic 400 speed that guarantees you can break 2:00 in the 800. Unlike what another poster said, there are plenty of sub 2:00 guys who can only run 53-54 for an open 400. Some people are aerobic monsters. I know a kid who in HS could not break 60 in the 400, ran 2:03 in the 800 and then 9:10 for 3200. He's an extreme example, but runners come in all flavors.

2) As you are new to the 800, you have some learning to do about how you can best run it, but generally speaking, to run your best 800, you should not plan to negative split.

3) Your endurance is not great at the moment. That appears to be the biggest problem currently. More mileage should be in your future.

You said that your training is going well. Do you feel abnormally tired on hills during runs? Your description of how you felt in the race screams to check your iron levels and feeling crappy on hills is another sign.

Like others have critiqued, your training might need some tweaks, but having confidence in what you are doing is nearly as important as what you are doing. There are many ways to skin a cat. Talk to your coach about training, but only in an inquiring sort of way. "What do you think if we tried..... I think I might respond to...... My race fell off at 200, what do you think we should do to bridge that further...... Do you think it would hurt me to try......

Your coach may have a longer term plan or other explanations for what you are feeling. Talk to him/her openly and honestly but do not listen to me or anyone else on a message board as though our word is better than the coach who works with you daily.

You can't run 800m without basic endurance. Workouts like 4x200m with 3min rest won't make You faster. I say it from expierence.

You need to develop basic aerobic endurance. Easy runs, longer intervals and short intervals with little rest.

For example, in place of 4x200m, You should run 15x200m with 1min rest. But not at 26s speed, but most likely at 33s

I’m going to rephrase this in a less douchey way.

Although I do agree that you’d wanna be a 50-52 guy to break 2:00 off of that small of workout volume. 52-53 relay is plenty to break 2:00, this guy has a stick up his butt. I have a teammate that runs 53 high and has ran 1:56.

I’d see what you could do to add volume to the workouts themselves, 4x200m at 600mish pace won’t do a whole lot for your 800m if you are supplementing that with only 15 miles of easy running a week.

see if you can do something more like 8x200m in 28-28.5 off of 2 minutes rest, let it get a bit lactic. Then do some more moderate track work like 8-12x400m working from 1:15 to 1:10 with only a minute or so rest.

was just talking to a friend and they said i may have peaked too early? lol

Your best 800 is 2:01 but you started that race with a 200 that would have given you a 1:52 final time. That's the immediate problem. Barry Magee once told me that every second you run in the first half of a race that's too fast will cost you two seconds in the last half. As a 2:00 guy, thirty seconds or so would be on pace so you were about two seconds too fast there and your last 200 was four seconds over that ideal pace.

The other problem I see is that your aerobic base is likely pretty small if that 15-20 mile figure is pretty much consistent with what you've been doing for a while. Your races have eroded it further and now that you're late in the season its pretty well eroded (pretty badly eroded? odd how each means the same thing) so you've got little in reserve for the late stages of races, especially those where you started too fast.

The easy runs are good but probably too short or too few to recharge you. I'm assuming you're having an indoor season that's winding down. It may be too late to rebuild you for this season with a mileage build up, though there's no harm in trying. Something I would try to salvage something if I was your coach might be long, slowish, intervals, maybe 800s at 85 seconds a lap, 1200s at 90, miles at 90-95 per lap with maybe a 200 walking for recovery, you'd kind of need to feel your way here. Do that every other day and have an easy run for as long as you can go comfortably on the intervening days. I see no point in short, fastish kinds of reps. I think you're overdone on that sort of running.

My other suggestion is to change the way you're racing. Have a goal of making the first 200 the slowest of your race. Look at a video of Dave Wottle's 800 gold in Munich. He's well back in the first 200 and as the race unfolds it looks like he's running faster. Actually, he's running evenly and everyone who started faster fades a bit and that allows him to catch them.

In 800m first 200m should be fastest. It isn't 5k. You can't get back lost time in the end.

Hit the weight room too. Run 2x a day. Do a 30-45 min easy am run 5 days per week. Be consistent, it takes time to improve. 

For 800/400, I go about 98% all out for the count of eight, then settle into race rhythm. You don't wan't to be going too hard at 100m or you WILL pay on the back end...maybne the most common error.

The problem with inadequate base preparation is you are always in "peak phase", and tend to either crash-and-burn (or get injured) or will erratically vary from one race to another. Consistency in training, whatever your methods, builds consistency in racing and a solid platform for progression.

The other thing is that as a relatively inexperienced runner, you will make race mistakes you don't even know you are making, usually with pace but also with preparation, psychology, etc.. That is what a coach is really essential for.

BTW 50-51 is pretty ideal for a 400/800 type sub-2:00. You have ability and you are in the right event, just be patient and do the work. Also consider doing a mile race or tow this Spring for a perspective on your stamina (if only to make the 800 feel less painful, lol)

PS If you aren't in Dragonflys already, the extra second or so might squeak you under ;)

That's a different take on running the 800 compared to what I've seen. I actually have ran a 2:02 only once before while training on my own before college and my splits were 30, 31, 31, 30. But the type of training I was doing different too. I believe if I ran faster than a 30 I would've had a slower time, but i dunno. I'm not the most efficient runner.

I was doing many strength related workouts. A lot of 600m repeats. I walked on to my college's team and this program is so different from what I did on my own.

run it with pure hate

The reason it is a different "take" is that neither HRE nor Barry Magee were 800 runners or coaches. They were marathoners. If you are a marathoner that advice makes decent sense. I have been both and have run the 800 many different ways as have my athletes. For a 400/800 type, even splits are almost never going to yield the fastest overall time.

You need stronger and quicker workouts

10 x 150 @400 pace

300's @ 45

500's @ 1:20

Hills once a week

One hour long run every week

I didn't write that You need to go super fast on first 200m and die in the end.

For me and most other 800m runners, first 400m should be 2s faster than second.

In Sunday I will have nationals. I will try this pacing - 27.0/28.0/28.5/28.5