tempo pace?

i ran a 1:29 last fall off of ~ 30-40 mpw and I plan on running ~40-50 mpw during the winter.

Alternate weeks

1) 40 minutes @ half marathon race pace (about 6:30 in your case)

2) 60 minutes @ marathon race pace (i.e about 6:45)

You may have to work up to these paces depending on your current fitness level. Once you have hit these paces for a few weeks you should be ready to give the 1:25 HM a go.

i'll help out with the time part...Daniels' equivalent for the 1:25HM vdot (54-55) is somewhere between 6:20 and 6:26. good luck.

I'm terrible at this stuff, but isn't a true "tempo" run supposed to be 20-25 minutes at around 10k pace?

depends on your objective and definition.

Daniels and many other would say that your tempo pace (aerobic threshold pace) is very close to half marathon race pace (just slightly quicker) and that your tempo run should be 20-30 minutes in length. But Daniels and many others also recognize that longer tempo runs at slightly slower pace (i.e 40 min at HMRP or 60 min @ MRP) may be just as good and in some cases better depending on what you are training for.

Since the original poster only gave us the goal of a half marathon time I recommended the alternation of the two longer versions that may best help him reach his stated goal.

or if you want to do it a different way talk about % of maximum heart rate. For the tempo runs shoot sustained effort at 85% to 92% of maximum heart rate.

Definitely not at 10K pace. While Coe's AT work of 15-20 minutes is done at 15K pace, the longer tempo runs are going to be between half marathon and marathon pace. 20-25 minutes at 10K pace would definitely not be "comfortably hard," and for some elite runners would put them within a few laps of running the whole 10K race.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but also advising you that unless it takes a great deal of time to cover the 10K distance (>40-45 minutes), 20-25 min @ 10K pace is pretty much a race.

Thanks for setting me straight, Logic and Spic.

Should your tempo pace be based on current times or goal times?

I'm a 35 year old M trying to break a 3 hour marathon next year, so pace wise I'm close to the 1:25 half in this thread. My marathon PR from earlier this year is 3:14. I have a lot of time to get to my goal and am working gradually to avoid injury.

you need like a year of running weeks of 100+ mileage to run a fast marathon. you cant be a pussy and run a half in 1:25 that's babyish...So start your High Mileage now and then work on speed work later on after the high mileage is comeplete

I'd do 2 kinds of tempo runs if I were you. One kind would be (usually)20-25 minutes just slightly slower than threshold. Forget about the pace, just go for the effort. The other type that I would do would be at goal half marathon pace (6:29). I'd start with maybe a 3 mile effort at that pace and gradually increase it to maybe 10 (which would be pretty close to a time trial).

I love all these definitions of a tempo run. Lets go with one more. How about Lydiard's Time Trial.

Run 10-15 miles at marathon pace: tempo run

Run 5-8 miles at half marathon pace: tempo run

Run 2-4 miles at 10k pace: tempo run

So, I define a tempo run as an evenly paced hard run. Then we can have fun and combine the above three: 4 miles marathon pace, 2 miles half marahton pace, 1 mile 10k pace...also known as a cutdown run.

Really it all depends on what your goal is. If you wish to train some phantom characteristic such as lactate threshold then follow Daniels 20-40 minute guideline. If you wish to train to actually race I think the above three examples are just peachy. You want to train to run hard beyond a mile (seemingly the natural limit for interval work) then run "tempo run" or "time trials" or whatever you wish to call them. Just run hard for a good while.

Alan

Lactate Threshold isn't some phantom thing. It's defined as the maximum lactate steady state (MaxLASS). A pace you can run where lactate production and removal are equal.

That being said, I don't like the term tempo. I prefer using Thresholds

Lactate Threshold is approximately 10mile pace. Or if you know a measured pace through a LT test, then add about 10seconds to that and that's your LT pace for runs on the trail/woods.

Aerobic Threshold is approximately marathon pace.

In my usage LT runs consist of anywhere from 20-45min spent at this pace with the longest interval being 20min. If you want to run more at LT than this, you've got to take some recovery before running again.

AT runs are generally 7-12mile runs at MP with the majority of them being 10.

You can run paces in between or whatever, but these are my two types of "tempo" running.

the problem with "tempo" runs is what the heck are they? everyone i know defines them different. everyone seems tyo have a diff defn.

here is an interesting article from running times on this confusion:

A Tempo Run by Many Other Names

The T-word Describes a Specific--and Very Useful--Workout

by Kevin Beck

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After watching the first two dozen victims drift across the finish line of a local five-miler one steamy morning last summer, I tracked down a friend, an accomplished road warrior with a 26:00 PR for the distance. A quick look at the guy—he was slouched over a fence and muttering to himself—suggested he’d made no concessions to the smothering July heat and humidity. Turns out he had finished somewhat below his usual spot in the regional pecking order, and I asked him—gingerly—how he felt about his race.

"Ahhh," he grumbled, flinging sweat into my face with a dismissive wave of his hand. "I ended up basically doing a tempo run."

Oh, I see. And this "tempo run" had ended in a grunting, flailing sprint to the finish to reel in a long-haired fellow with a nipple ring. I asked my friend about his splits.

"Went out in 5:00, 5:15. Didn’t check the third mile, but by then I was feeling it and didn’t care. I just kind of cruised in." Another wave.

This time I dodged the sweat-bullets and thought: He’d run his first mile faster than his 5K race pace. Tempo run?

Another friend reported doing a recent "two-mile tempo run," with the first mile in 5:14 and the second in 5:34. The uneven pacing was no surprise to me; she had recently run a peak-effort 5K at 5:25 pace, which suggests she was sucking a lot of air after the first mile of her workout.

This pattern of extremely ambitious "tempo runs" seems to be on the rise. Imprudent use of the t-word is endemic among runners, and the above examples clearly indicate that even seasoned, top-notch competitors either don’t know or don’t care what a tempo run really is. This is surprising, because the term is clearly and simply defined by coaches and exercise physiologists. And this is not a matter of nit-picking semantics; doing a tempo run incorrectly greatly compromises its training benefits.

The Real (and Unreal) Thing

The term "tempo run" is to distance running in the ’90s what Studio 54 was to ’70s decadence: Tossing it around separates the wannabes from the in-crowd. It’s a key staple in the training diet, to be sure, but very few seem to know just what the recipe calls for.

The misuse of the phrase is fed by two main sources: basic ignorance and the tendency of a dispirited runner to grab for the nearest handy excuse. Anyone who labels a race in which he doesn’t stick precisely to a predetermined pace a "tempo run" is invariably offering a ramshackle justification for a sub-par performance. The term seems to be particularly applied to races in which the athlete goes out hard and crashes harder. My favorite example is that of a friend who dropped out 21 miles into a marathon and, in a mitigating gesture, called the disappointing result a "tempo run." Twenty-one miles at 10-mile race pace? I’m not surprised he had to quit.

The popularization of the tempo run also provides opportunities for sandbagging and psychological ploys. I’ve heard competitors mumble, "I’m just doing a tempo run," seconds before commencing to hammer out a whopping PR.

Just Over Easy

So just for review, let’s see how the experts define the term. Also known as an anaerobic threshold (AT) run or lactate-threshold run, the tempo run was popularized by Jack Daniels, Ph.D., about a decade ago. Here’s his definition, taken from Daniels’ Running Formula (Human Kinetics): "A tempo run is nothing more than 20 minutes of steady running at threshold pace." (He goes on to say that 20 minutes is ideal, but may be varied to suit the needs of a particular course.) Without getting too technical, threshold pace is the effort level just below which the body’s ability to clear lactate, a by-product of carbohydrate metabolism, can no longer keep up with lactate production. Daniels states that this pace is, for most people, about 25 to 30 seconds per mile slower than current 5K race pace.

Exercise physiologist and coach Pete Pfitzinger adds: "For very fit runners, the pace is between 15K and half-marathon race pace." For those fond of using heart rate monitors, Daniels notes that tempo runs are done at 90% of maximum. However, most runners seem to find it easier to use running speed as a guide.

For those who have neither HRMs nor marked courses at their disposal, Daniels stresses that the effort associated with a tempo run should be "comfortably hard"—one that could be maintained for an hour in a race.

Simple enough. But troll the Internet for definitions and you will find statements such as the following:

A Team Oregon running club definition: "One fourth to one third of race distance at race pace."

From something called "The Bad Runner’s Bible": "A type of training run based on time instead of distance. Tempo runs are good for when you have no idea how long a trail is."

From the training log of mountain maven Matt Carpenter: "Four-mile tempo run on a hill at approximately 12% grade." (According to Daniels: "Hills, rough footing and wind all play havoc with the ability to maintain a steady pace, and interfere with achieving the purpose of the workout.")

Tempo How-Tos

Maintaining a specific and consistent pace is the most important aspect of a tempo run. However, this doesn’t exclude variety in other respects, depending on a runner’s individual goals. Says Pfitzinger, "The tempo runs I use for my athletes most frequently are four to six miles at 15K to half-marathon race pace." For marathoners, Pfitzinger prescribes up to nine miles at between half-marathon and marathon race pace, or a 13-mile run followed by five miles at between half-marathon and marathon pace. He will typically have his runners perform two of these workouts every three weeks during a marathon build-up. This is a sensible guideline; as the goal race approaches (but before tapering) the runner might want to increase the frequency to one tempo effort weekly.

Pfitzinger adds that not all competitors benefit equally from tempo runs. "Athletes racing from 15K on up to the marathon receive the most benefit from tempo runs because the physiological adaptations are most specific to the demands of those races," he notes. "An improvement in lactate threshold is only a small benefit for a 5K race because that race is run well above lactate-threshold pace. Performance in races of 15K to the marathon, however, is determined primarily by the runner’s lactate-threshold pace." Tempo runs, therefore, provide a direct and important benefit in longer races for runners at any level, from novice to elite veteran.

Variations on the AT theme

Daniels mentions another workout, "cruise intervals," which are tempo runs interspersed at regular (say, one-mile or 10-minute) intervals by 30- to 60-second rest periods. This pattern diminishes the psychological difficulty of the workout while preserving the aerobic benefits, allows greater volume (five miles or even more for elite marathoners) and may help guard against excessive speed. He also recommends inserting periods of AT running into long runs—say, two 20-minute tempo runs bookending an easy one-hour run—something a marathoner might do bi-weekly in the latter stages of race preparation.

Of course, any coach would strongly discourage the "accidental" tempo run that results from melting down in the middle of a race. As for another practice that has become common, deliberately planning races as tempo runs, Pfitzinger is almost as disapproving. "I don’t like the idea of my runners giving anything short of 100% effort," he opines, "and even if the plan was to go at tempo-run pace, any motivated runner would likely go too hard once the gun fires."

Remember, the one real requirement of tempo running is that you stick to a steady, specific, planned pace. Beyond that you have many options. Of course, if you’re still unsure, you can always resort to the tongue-in-cheek prescription set forth by the Tahoe Mountain Milers: "Tempo run: Running to the beat of your favorite song should be done at least once a week."

Kevin Beck runs to his own beat in Concord, NH.