Mid-distance guys should have MORE DAYS ON THE TRACK.

You're going to lose your mind when you hear about Igloi.

I think recovery is important so intervals every day isn’t a great idea. This is essentially what my highschool team did, running 15ish mpw during track season, and with 30-40 or so boys, we’d have 4-5 breaking 11 for the 3200m, maybe 1 breaking 10, and usually 3-4 sub 2:05 guys with maybe 1 breaking 2. Not the numbers you’d want to see from that big of a team. Other teams with the same numbers were fielding a full varsity group of sub 10:00 guys and sub 8:00 4x800m teams.

I think periodization and small variations in training is what truly helps the 800-1600 runner find success. I think high mileage base building has two different but equally useful purposes from mid-d to long-d runners. For true distance runners, it’s really just to build aerobic strength. For mid D, there’s the aerobic factor, but also to strengthen the body to be able to handle the grueling workouts in season. Someone used to running 20 mpw is going to suffer doing something like 12x400m working from 3k to 1500m pace with jogging rest, but someone doing 70 mpw will manage that workout well.

The law of specifity is important when comparing the two disciplines. For lactate threshold, an 800m runner would probably be better off doing something like 12-20x400m at 4:50-5:00 pace (depending on skill and overall volume) with short rest instead of a 3-5 mile tempo at 5:30-5:40 pace. The former workout is going to be closer mechanically to the goal race pace and environment, but have the same aerobic effect and volume.

Different parts of the daily workout should be emphasized to different athletes as well. The 3-5 100m-200m strides after the easy run may be more beneficial than the run itself to an 800m guy, while the mileage is the most important factor of the day for a 3k-5k guy.

We train once per week on the track. We are pretty lucky here to have great grass surfaces that we also do our harder sessions on.

Our training week looks like this:

Monday recovery

Tuesday track

Wednesday 10-15k

Thursday Threshold efforts on grass +5x100

Friday OFF

Saturday Hills or 1k efforts or progressive run (on dirt or grass)

Sunday 12-20k

We had a good 2021 with 3 of my athletes achieving the following times:

3:43 for 1500m

1:49 for 800m

1:50 for 800 (National U20 medallist)

We also had a female run 1:10 for half marathon

FartKing69 wrote:

You're going to lose your mind when you hear about Igloi.

I was just gonna say that, FartKing69

FartKing69 wrote:

You're going to lose your mind when you hear about Igloi.

Not at all! His guys built tremendous volume, but mostly via good- to strong-paced repetitions that were closer to the mechanical pattern of a racing stride than to the more restricted stride of most distance running.

If anything, Igloi's methods and results would be arguments in favor of *more* interval work for middle-distance runners.

coahc wrote:

We train once per week on the track. We are pretty lucky here to have great grass surfaces that we also do our harder sessions on.

Our training week looks like this:

Monday recovery

Tuesday track

Wednesday 10-15k

Thursday Threshold efforts on grass +5x100

Friday OFF

Saturday Hills or 1k efforts or progressive run (on dirt or grass)

Sunday 12-20k

We had a good 2021 with 3 of my athletes achieving the following times:

3:43 for 1500m

1:49 for 800m

1:50 for 800 (National U20 medallist)

We also had a female run 1:10 for half marathon

I appreciate the post, but I don't think it really responds to OP. Your HM runner definitely ran an impressive time, but the post was about mid-d people spending more time on the track, not HM runners spending more time on the track.

To move your discussion more in line with the original question: The runners you listed certainly ran really good times off of 1 track day, but you also have two days/week doing stuff that would be done on the track by athletes without grass. For your 800 runners, do you think the Sunday 12-20k is more efficient than another day on the track? Or maybe 5-8k followed by some track work? Also, how do the 800 runners do at 1500m, and vice versa?

Interesting, OP. I remember that during his "sharpening" phase, Snell was on the track pretty much every day. Ditto Ryun. They ran pretty good 800s.

But I hesitate to use them as examples for anything, because they probably would have been world beaters in any decent program.

Just because you go “on the track” doesn’t mean you have to go balls to the wall. Nor does it mean you need to neglect aerobic development.

Lease, I specifically remember one of your posts about an 800 runner of yours doing 50 x 100 striders on a recovery day and that it left him far fresher than a 5-6 mile run would have.

Thanks for your feedback. Seb COE was and is a perfect example of doing multiple sessions on the track for mid-distance runners.

In developing juniors as stated running fast on grass is a perfect way to continue with LTAD. In my previous post my 3:43 runner has run a 3:57.04 mile recently in the states. He came to me at the age of 11 so a cautious approach for sure.

My athletes that has run 1:49 came to me at 21 with no running experience thus a cautious approach to keep him healthy with grass sessions and in 4 years has gone from 2:16 to 1:49. Every athlete is different thus the art of coaching. This is just my journey.

Hi Coach C, do you have any recommendations for a 30-year-old looking to train seriously for the 800m after many years away from the sport?

All serious training from sprints through middle distance should be on the track. Except for weights.

Look at the sprinters on the track pretty much every day. Standing, sitting around, doing a few drills, some starts, listen to coach explain something for 30 minutes. Somewhere in the two hour practice they go all out for 80 meters a couple times. Lazy AF but somehow they end up fast as lightning.

Think of it as training, not as going hard. Training hard doesn't make you faster. Mid D has to be fast.

the best runner i've ever had is in his second year of college and is not hitting the times he ran in high school with me. i read his strava and i see him just running miles and strides. sometimes no workouts during the week. it breaks my heart. we still have a good relationship, but i don't want to sell his coach out to him. it is tough if you don't believe in the guy leading you, and does like the guy.

but gosh it is frustrating to watch and not be able to do anything about it.

i didn't even come close to over training him either. junior year was 40 per week in cross and 30 during track. senior year was 50 during cross and indoor. outdoor wiped out by covid.

now he is running 50 to 55 per week, seemingly year round, with far less quality.