During base phase now and I was thinking doing some running at marathon effort would be good, but jumping right into the longer stuff doesn't seem wise, so I was thinking about doing like 12x1000 w/ walking rest to begin with, but i'm not sure what the duration of the rest should be, maybe 30-45s?
Any suggestion would be very much appreciated
If you’re doing your current marathon fitness, then 30-45 seconds is good.
If your doing your goal marathon race pace, the rest can be anywhere from 3-5 minutes.
I’d recommend doing the goal race pace. You’ve got more room for progression that way.
500m @ 90% MP
Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:
500m @ 90% MP
He is looking for recommended rest interval for a particular workout.
made bed wrote:
If you’re doing your current marathon fitness, then 30-45 seconds is good.
If your doing your goal marathon race pace, the rest can be anywhere from 3-5 minutes.
I’d recommend doing the goal race pace. You’ve got more room for progression that way.
5 minutes! It'll be dark before he's finished all 12. I would think his heart rate would be 'ready' in 3 minutes at the very most.
kmaclam wrote:
Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:
500m @ 90% MP
He is looking for recommended rest interval for a particular workout.
That is the rest…
1000m @ 100% MP
500m @ 90% MP
How do you expect to run a marathon well by doing 1000m repeats and standing around waiting to do the next one?
kmaclam wrote:
Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:
500m @ 90% MP
He is looking for recommended rest interval for a particular workout.
I think that was the suggested rest interval, ie, he should alternate 1000m @ marathon effort with 500m @ 90% of that effort. I think that’s a pretty good workout, but also has him changing gears a little often. I would recommend (depending on the OP’s current total volume and usual workout volume) starting at something like 5-6 x 1k @ MP w/ 1k @ 90% of MP recovery (e.g., if MP is 6:00/mile, this recovery segment is 6:36/mile) and progressing toward 12-15 x the same. 12-15 x would be one of the peak workouts of the cycle for many runners, as with warmup and warmdown it totals 21-23 miles (with, if topping out at 15x, 18.5 miles of quality—12x, with nearly 15 miles of quality and 17-19 miles of total volume, is plenty for a lot of people).
Start with a minute and work down to 30 seconds.
Kipchoge does fartleks of 13x3 min with 1 min rest at roughly his marathon pace. So I would recommend if doing 12x1000@marathon pace, to do it with a 1 minute (or 200m) jogging rest.
Oh, I think the confusion going around is my fault, I forgot to mention, I'm not a marathoner, I'm more of a 5-10k guy. My reasoning in doing these 'marathon efforts' short reps was to use it as a sub-threshold workout, more like a moderate workout in the middle of the week between a threshold session (cruise intervals) on tuesday and a hill reps/fartlek session on saturday.
The reason for the standing rest would be to not make it a too long or too daunting workout, as it would already be a 19-20km session warm up, cool down included. I think it would become to hard to progress it to 16-20km with active recovery.
What I really have no idea is what shoud the lenght of the rest be, as I'm not familiar with how short reps at marathon pace are described in the literature
Not An Expert wrote:
kmaclam wrote:
He is looking for recommended rest interval for a particular workout.
I think that was the suggested rest interval, ie, he should alternate 1000m @ marathon effort with 500m @ 90% of that effort. I think that’s a pretty good workout, but also has him changing gears a little often. I would recommend (depending on the OP’s current total volume and usual workout volume) starting at something like 5-6 x 1k @ MP w/ 1k @ 90% of MP recovery (e.g., if MP is 6:00/mile, this recovery segment is 6:36/mile) and progressing toward 12-15 x the same. 12-15 x would be one of the peak workouts of the cycle for many runners, as with warmup and warmdown it totals 21-23 miles (with, if topping out at 15x, 18.5 miles of quality—12x, with nearly 15 miles of quality and 17-19 miles of total volume, is plenty for a lot of people).
That is correct.
Also I wouldn’t have suggested 1k repeats to begin with but that’s what the OP wanted.
A better Canova style marathon workout is: 8x2000m @ MP with 1km recoveries @ 90% MP.
24km of good solid work. Obviously for mortals you could start with 4x2000m and build up. It’s all about progression.
If you can’t handle the 90% MP recoveries then start with 85% or 80% and progress as the weeks go on.
Johnson Family Fluffer wrote:
Start with a minute and work down to 30 seconds.
I was thinking of something along those lines as Jack Daniels recomend 1min of rest between miles at 'half-marathon' effort
I know it sounds crazy, but the end goal is 42km at 100% MP, right?
a guy in base phase wrote:
Johnson Family Fluffer wrote:
Start with a minute and work down to 30 seconds.
I was thinking of something along those lines as Jack Daniels recomend 1min of rest between miles at 'half-marathon' effort
I'm sorry, but that is a horrible extrapolation of Daniels' philosophy.
Marathon pace is just a bit zippier than easy pace for most mortal runners. Anyone with any aerobic base, at all, can do this safely for miles at a time. They don't need the endurance that comes from marathon training, they can do a few miles today. It's not about being trained for a marathon - it's just a pace. If someone needs to stop completely to recover from 1000m at what they think is their M-pace, they are running way faster than their M-pace.
Marathon pace is limited by endurance and glycogen depletion, not from getting winded like T-pace (which you mistakenly refer to as HM-pace, which is only true for elite runners).
Stopping and resting after doing M-pace running is something that's in the same universe as Gallowalking, maybe even easier.
Sorry I didn’t see the post that said you’re not a marathoner.
kmaclam wrote:
made bed wrote:
If you’re doing your current marathon fitness, then 30-45 seconds is good.
If your doing your goal marathon race pace, the rest can be anywhere from 3-5 minutes.
I’d recommend doing the goal race pace. You’ve got more room for progression that way.
5 minutes! It'll be dark before he's finished all 12. I would think his heart rate would be 'ready' in 3 minutes at the very most.
This entire thread is insane and based on a complete misunderstanding of physiology. The only time you would need 3 minutes rest is (maybe) doing maximum-length reps at VO2max (and that would be jogging recovery), or recovering completely from long reps to focus on form and power. What are you "recovering" from after doing a few minutes at "slightly faster than easy" pace?
if you have a decent base this should be pretty easy. 30 seconds is good. just make sure you are doing hypothetical M pace based on your CURRENT 5k or 10k fitness.
You could just do a straight MP run....
Or how about:
1k at MP
1k at HM
5x
That would be a workout. Start with 3x, progress to 5x.
Really doesnt have to be exactly 1k. Find a loop that is around 1k, lets say 800-1200m. Run laps until blue in the face.
I used to do something similar but it was a hilly ~4k loop. I could do a lot of different workouts on that loop...HM effort...MP effort...hill reps...etc
Alan
Op is in base phase. Not looking for any kind of 'real' workout yet.
kmaclam wrote:
Op is in base phase. Not looking for any kind of 'real' workout yet.
Point being, even if you're in base phase, you can just run some M-pace mixed into your easy run. There is no point in running slightly above easy pace and then stopping running to recover - the recovery is not necessary.