Could I run sub-18 this year?

First off, any woman who has run in the 18s with a shot at sub-18 has talent and isnt a hobby jogger. You are on the right track. Stay consistent with your miles, get lots of sleep and nutrition and you will get there.

Most importantly, it's great that you have worked through the ED. I hope you continue to take care of yourself, and that you have plenty of support :)

That's a decent 400m there. It would make sense to use this speed as an asset in your training.

Strong 4 x 800m session. Seems like you are currently in sub-5 mile or a sub-4:40 1500 shape.

Not sure why you'd run 10 x 400 just 4 min after (or same day, or heck next day even) a 4-mi progressive tempo ... depends on the context with the rest of your training, but I'd guess that's a recipe for burnout. Not an expert, but to me those 400s seem slow compared to your 400m TT and your 4 x 800m session (meaning you could have done a better quality session with rest), so what was the point other than to burn yourself out?

To answer your question, imo you can break 18. I'd suggest starting with 2-3 easy days, then a mile/1600/1500 TT and using an online calculator (say, Tinman or McMillan) for your true tempo / cruise interval / LT session pace.

I'd also suggest keeping to 2 hard days per week, if you are using a 7-day microcycle. You're not in your teens or early 20s any more, so recovery is more important and the added days of easy miles should significantly build aerobic fitness over time. And speaking of time, you don's have to hammer 3 hard sessions a week in an effort to focus on a 2-4-month-long season; if you choose to do so, you can take all year to build up for six weeks of quality racing and as you get into your 30s & up this will likely work better.

Maybe something like

Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri easy + 3-4 x 50-100m strides, smooth/relaxed then progressively a bit faster each rep, never full sprint

Wed warmup, 20' tempo (yep, just 20'), 4 x 150m accelerations with full sprint finish, cooldown

Sat alternate: long run OR workout (early in macrocycle alternate 5-8 x 1000 LT 200m jog -or- hill session; late in season move to a mix of your fav classic 5K workouts)

Sun off or easy pool recovery

Just some thoughts from a nobody ;)

I think you'll probably be able to break 18 this year. Just don't get greedy with the mileage.

If you ran 700 miles last year, then really ramped up your mileage into the 70s (if I'm reading that right), then that's a pretty quick increase. Be on the lookout for aches and pains and don't be afraid to drop the mileage and take rest days.

Something about that 4x800 doesn't add up to me. 30s rest is waaaay too short to do that workout at mile pace, meaning if you really ran that workout your mile time should be way under 5:00 already and you'd practically be in sub-18 shape already

Thank you for responding so thoroughly! I did not expect y'all to be so positive and thoughtful.

Thank you! It's been a long time coming and in no small part due to this sport, so I am just glad I can finally post a good performance and not just a good weigh-in.

It was a very anomalous, stars aligned workout. I had a brief scare with achilles tendonitis in late autumn that stopped me doing more than a couple miles a day of running for a week and a half but I was otherwise able to crosstrain through; this was the first workout back. Rests probably got milked a bit (I wasn't timing) and I went wayyyy too far into the well trying to keep up with some teammates.

I heavily neglected tempo pace work during my summer buildup and it hurt me a ton racing this fall. I was only doing one workout a week back then, and now that I have a second quality day in addition to my long run, have been using it for tempo work. I had my COVID booster and flu shot that week and couldn't guarantee a second workout day, so went big to simulate late race fatigue and build some confidence I could bang out 3k pace laps on tired legs.

Definitely sticking to two hard days -- it wasn't until December that I added a second hard day if I wasn't racing, since I didn't think I had the volume to support it and recover sufficiently to make it worth it. I'm pretty laser-focused on peaking for XC and some significant regional races in late summer and just building the base for that throughout the rest of the year. Want to stave off having to run a full for as long as I possibly can.

Did about 1k in 2019, 600 in 2020, and ~1970 this year. Hit 60 for the first time in August and then was in the 50s/low 60s with some dips throughout the fall. Will likely not go above 75 at all for the next year and drop down into the low 60s or high 50s for most of the racing season. Part of it is simply that I love running and would always rather do more than less, partially that my cycling background has me wanting to push higher, easier mileage than is common for runners. Could be suboptimal. Going to give it six months and reevaulate.

Yes, you can definitely go under 18:00, maybe even under 17:00 with a year of good training. The workouts confuse me a bit. 62 for 400 is definitely an outlier. I know plenty of guys that can run 16:00ish (+/- :10-20) with the same kind of leg speed.

From the workouts, it looks like tempo/strength work is an area to focus on. The 4 x 800 workout looks like an outlier &, on 30s rest, reads like 3200m pace which already puts you under 17:00.

The other workouts check out for 18-mid so dk what to make of everything. It's clear you have some speed. I think 50-70 miles/week is already pretty good. Run more if you can but consistency there is going to make your times drop rapidly. I would look at tempo/threshold workouts & run them like an 18-mid runner. Threshold should be right around 6:20 pace so 4-6 mile tempos averaging 6:20 versus ending there would be good. 6:10-6:15 pace when breaking up strength workouts. It seems like you have some good energy. Think about a coach or getting an extra set of eyes on your training. It's easy to overdo things so I would stick to 60ish miles/week with two workouts & a long run. Every few weeks do 1 workout during the week & then add some faster running to your long run. That'll help with the strength stuff. Long runs shouldn't always be slow.

You are quite a bit faster than me. I would love to run a sub-21 minute 5k.

But I will tell you that when I have added improvement, it's been from leg strength exercises.

Split squats, single-leg squats and so on. Also adding weights as you go on.

The amount of time that you want to shave off is relatively short, that some time on these might help.

Good luck.

--Sean

Ran a 10:30 3k on a flat track this past week with plenty left in the tank. Was surprised how good I felt and it seems I’m much closer to hitting the 18:00 mark than I thought!

I will have a few opportunities over the coming months to get on a banked track with much faster competition and have to choose which events to run. I know at my speeds bank v flat isn’t worth too much time, but I run better with a big field of people to chase and think it should help my performance quite a bit.

If it were you, with only a few chances to race, would you keep trying to whittle down the 3k time, try out the 1500 (currently a 5:33 PR, so huge improvement to be had), or jump back to 5K to set a better mark for the outdoor season?

hi there,

you are way faster than sub 18. given your 4x800m workout with only 30s rest (literally nothing, that´s a race indicator workout), you may run in race conditions the 2 miles in 10:20-10:30. use daniel´s vdot running calculator and the equivalent for it in a 5k is a strong 16:35-16:52. this indicates that your first sentence in your post ("Confirmed no talent hobbyjogger here") is simply wrong. you are talented and you need to trust in it.

join a good club and a good coach. your training needs to be evaluated. your workouts don´t make sense, in my opinion. some monster workouts next to classic workouts and a mix of 5k training and mile training? a good coach would help you to train all the necessary aspects without overdoing it. i am afraid sooner or later you will end in an injury. all the best!

big daddy wrote:

Something about that 4x800 doesn't add up to me. 30s rest is waaaay too short to do that workout at mile pace, meaning if you really ran that workout your mile time should be way under 5:00 already and you'd practically be in sub-18 shape already

+1 Yes, that claimed workout easy gave the OP away to be just a troll post.

First off, you don't run sub-19 and 62.7 without a modicum of talent.. It may not turn you into Molly Huddle, but would get you pretty far with consistent training.

And from your post, I'm gonna echo what others have already said : just stay consistent with your training. Don't overdo things. Do what has already been working for you. Actually your 800m indicates you're already there (I would even venture you could get pretty close to 17-flat with that speed endurance). You may just need a bit of 5k race pace work like 1k by 5, with 3 mins rest.

Just my two cents.

spot on! wrote:

big daddy wrote:

Something about that 4x800 doesn't add up to me. 30s rest is waaaay too short to do that workout at mile pace, meaning if you really ran that workout your mile time should be way under 5:00 already and you'd practically be in sub-18 shape already

+1 Yes, that claimed workout easy gave the OP away to be just a troll post.

oh that's 30s rest, I read 3 mins lol

No. that doesn't add up . She can run well below 10 for 3k off that and yet she can't break 18 mins?

7/10, I fell for it.

This troll thread leads to the interesting question- could a GOAT like El Guerrouj do 4x800 /30s rest at mile pace? No, literally an impossible workout, lol.