Use Brooks Hyperion Tempo as a" racing flat"

No reason not to, they're a very stable shoe and more cushioned than a flat, and feel very light on the feet. I've seen kids run 4:40s-4:50s in the same exact shoe, so if that's around your target time and something you would want to do then you should be fine.

You've got the right idea. Spikes are fun, but if they put too much strain on your calves (to the point of injury), it's better to wear something with a little more heel lift. Now if you already own hyperion tempos, go for it. However, if you are thinking of buying them at $150, I'd go for Saucony Endorphin Pro 1 on sale at running warehouse. Still 8mm, but a faster shoe that you can also use for workouts.

Hyperion is a great shoe for racing. The Endorphin speed is in the same category.

It’s not a flat, so no. Sure you can race in it. You can race in anything. Who were you quoting?

I'm not familiar with the shoe height limits at HS level, but make sure you won't be DQ'd for wearing them. If they're too high, you don't have many calf-saving options still being made....maybe the Saucony fast twitch (also much cheaper than the Tempo)

Thanks everyone! Glad to hear a few people think it's a decent move. Yes, I'm looking at 4:50's this year so the little more weight at my level should be fine. Much rather be a little healthier. I'll check out the Saucony's too

In general you wear the Swoosh, right? I mean, that's the starting point. And thats true of 99% of high school runners, is it not? Newbury ain't going to be caught dead in another brand. Nico even kept wearing them at an 'adidas school.'

So let me ask you:

Why is this the case?

I don't work for any shoe, get any commission, nothing. I have no dog in the fight. But I HAVE observed this. Noticed it back when Running Times existed. There was a pic I remembered showing feet on a starting line of some random high school race. 100% Nike. You won't remember the magazine, let alone that insignificant picture.

It caught my eye because when I was that age, Brooks was the most popular among my training group. You saw a fair amount of NB. We raced in flats (on the road). As far as the type who were on the school track team, they raced in spikes I guess. A lot of Puma it seems. This was before Beaverton completely took over the teenage running world. Decades before, in fact.

My assumption is that peer pressure is the main, or perhaps only reason for this. But you tell me. By the way, I have no objection to you and everyone else your age wearing them. Certainly not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. Party on, you know.

You’re never going to get used to spikes or flats if you never use them.

Run in flats for the last rep of a workout, then transition to more of the workout.

Do eccentric heel raises and work on Achilles and calf work. U should be fine. I wouldn’t buy a whole new pair of shoes just for the purpose of not wearing spikes

no agenda....just wondering wrote:

In general you wear the Swoosh, right? I mean, that's the starting point. And thats true of 99% of high school runners, .

My assumption is that peer pressure is the main, or perhaps only reason for this. But you tell me. By the way, I have no objection to you and everyone else your age wearing them. Certainly not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. Party on, you know.

I started with Nike back in middle school - I was very small for my grade, and they were the only company making "kid" sized running shoes. They worked well for me, and since Nike was very consistent in their sizing, I stuck with them as it was easy to order them online and know what size would fit. I just got into a size 8 this year, but I went with the Nike flats and spikes because they were available in 7.5's and 8's. Ordered both, and we sent back the 7's. I like them fine, but I missed the last 3 races of the season with that strain and was so disappointed after a good start to the season. I know I have to get backing real spikes someday, but I don't want another long setback this year. My Dad thought maybe heel cups in the Nike flats or a super light shoe with a little more heel than the flats could be a conservative next step for the next couple of months. The PT thought it might be good, but wasn't that definitive about it.

not a duck wrote:

You’re never going to get used to spikes or flats if you never use them.

Run in flats for the last rep of a workout, then transition to more of the workout.

Do eccentric heel raises and work on Achilles and calf work. U should be fine. I wouldn’t buy a whole new pair of shoes just for the purpose of not wearing spikes

This was my other concern. I know I need to get back into real spikes by XC time next year. I'm doing the eccentric drops off a step, and a couple other things for the calf, and also now stuff for my hip and glutes from the PT. I haven't done speed for 4-5 weeks, and my mileage is back to the 30's this week. My coach is going to keep see just doing miles into next week, and then start adding some speed days and eventually some races. I'm just afraid to miss a bunch more time. I suppose I could try the flats in a workout, and not the other shoes as a first step, but if I hurt my calf again for some JV indoor races, I'll lose my mind

HS school freshman reply wrote:

This was my other concern. I know I need to get back into real spikes by XC time next year. I'm doing the eccentric drops off a step, and a couple other things for the calf, and also now stuff for my hip and glutes from the PT. I haven't done speed for 4-5 weeks, and my mileage is back to the 30's this week. My coach is going to keep see just doing miles into next week, and then start adding some speed days and eventually some races. I'm just afraid to miss a bunch more time. I suppose I could try the flats in a workout, and not the other shoes as a first step, but if I hurt my calf again for some JV indoor races, I'll lose my mind

The goal of wearing flats, spikes, or whatever shoe is to optimize or improve your speed over training shoes, right? Do you want to run fast, or do you want to wear spikes? If your feet hurt, or if you get injured from spikes, you're not running very fast on the sidelines.

Give yourself some time to adapt. Maybe even work on your whole track season at it. Wear your flats around the house or for a very short, easy run once a week to see how you respond. It sounds like the sand running was the cause of the injury and the spikes/flats made it worse or prevented recovery - but maybe they were not the root cause of the problem.

I think you'll be fine in a less aggressive shoe like the Hyperion for track, especially if you're running 1600/3200. The gain in traction with spikes is going to be marginal if you're running on modern track surfaces or even older asphalt-style tracks. Probably not as good in the rain as spikes, but running in the rain is better than watching it from the sidelines in the rain.

(Let me preface this by saying my name is meant to be ironic)

Marketing (everybody wants to be like Farah, Lebron, etc etc.), and some peer pressure. Nike's also a known quantity for kids new to running in this day and age who (before starting to run) have never worn saucony, asics, new balance, or brooks. Every kid has or wants a pair of Nike or Adidas (both of whom make great products), but I find that Adidas running shoes are just harder to come by in store. When kids go to Dick's sporting goods or the running shop that they'll inevitably be directed to, they'll see a familiar brand and just go with that, which I think starts a cycle of familiarity. There's also my opinion that, in the modern era even before superspikes, Nike really does just make the best racing spikes, and have done so for quite a while. I think that could play a role if other people agree.

Totally agree with your idea.

The Hyperion tempo's will perform well as a racing flat.

Light, responsive, and nimble, but aren't overly aggressive.

Keep on the strengthening exercises for your calves is equally as important as well.

If I had a message for my younger self I would say these three things:

*don't be afraid of strength training

*take easy runs very easy

*choose the footwear that bests suits you regardless of whether its popular or not

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

[quote]HS school freshman reply wrote:

I think you'll be fine in a less aggressive shoe like the Hyperion for track, especially if you're running 1600/3200. The gain in traction with spikes is going to be marginal if you're running on modern track surfaces or even older asphalt-style tracks. Probably not as good in the rain as spikes, but running in the rain is better than watching it from the sidelines in the rain.

This was our thinking, I'd rather get to run he whole season. I will take the advice from all of you, I will still put the Nike flats on a little bit in practice and/or cool down runs to try to condition my calves, but I think I'll use the Brooks for my races through most of indoor & outdoor. It definitely could've all been from going hard in that soft beach sand, and then running a hilly course a few days later. I definitely tried to come back too soon 12 days later, so I made to many possible causes to pinpoint which was my root cause if the injury. I'm trying everything just in case. I guess one silver lining is the calf strength work will always be a part of my training from now on.

One more thing - I also ordered a set of Tuli's heavy duty heel cups after reading a few threads this week on calf strains. I could try them in the Nike flats as well for a little more lift, but the Brooks might work better since the added lift is "built-in" if that makes any sense. (Like the cups might slide around in the flats and irritate my foot.) I haven't used either yet, but for 12 bucks we're willing to try it all.

It's worth a try. But lifting the heel in a cross country or track shoe is a little different because the last is so curved. You will lose some of the inherent stability provided by the low-to-the-ground nature of the flat.

* stipe wrote:

It's worth a try. But lifting the heel in a cross country or track shoe is a little different because the last is so curved. You will lose some of the inherent stability provided by the low-to-the-ground nature of the flat.

Yes, I'm afraid it might get really unstable. I'll definitely jog with it first. I really hope the calf stretches and strength makes all of these solutions temporary.