How to go from 2:26 to 2:17?

I went from 2:31 in 2015 in my first marathon to 2:18 in 2017 in my second.

The training years of 2016 and 2017 had an average of 120mpw with peaks at 140-150. General structure:

M - Easy + Strides

T - Fartlek or Threshold

W - Single Long Run

R - Easy + Hill Sprints

F - Fartlek or Threshold (whichever you didn't do earlier in the week)

S - Easy

S - Long Run with Quality

I would say in your case, addressing your points:

- Mileage isn't end all be all, but it helps with your overall metabolic conditioning to have a generally higher consistent training load

- I would make your long run have a quality portion as a second "workout"

- Hill sprints once a week for two years will pay massive dividends in overall higher metabolic support as well as neuromuscular cordination

- Can't comment on specific weight training, but you'd probably be better served doing something dedicated to improve stability than just 100 push ups a day

- If you want to break 2:18 then you have to be able to look in the mirror and tell yourself that you have to sacrifice a bit of your social life to make time for training and recovery. It just is what it is.

- I won't comment on weight because I feel that should be reserved for experts, but I would recommend seeing a sports dietician (registered RD, not a nutritionist) for their input and suggestions into your suggestion.

If you've run 2:26 there isn't any major reason why you don't have the ability to build up to a sub 2:18 over the next two years.

Second this.

What are your shorter distance PRs?

Consulting with a experienced coach would probably help considerably. Perhaps there are form drills and other preventative measures you can implement to help increase your mileage. An experienced coach would probably be your best resource. Are you located near any local or semi-regional running clubs that routinely send guys to OTQ? They're often associated with experienced coaches that assist with "elite development" (OTQ caliber guys) for no charge. They also often provide some support (shoes, etc.) for their "elite development" members.

Mileage for a marathon is huge. I'm not even going to look at your workouts. Just make sure you're not doing all track 5k workouts and instead getting in some good volume within your workouts, a lot of it at half marathon pace. I'm talking 60-90 minute fartleks or 12-18 x 3 minutes, or some 3 x 3 mile workouts, possibly even 4 x 3 mile. Do workouts in your long runs about 50%-75% of the time. You'll likely need to do more than 100, I don't really think 100 miles is enough to do a good marathon. Even 110 is pretty minimal for trying to run 2:17, especially for someone who isn't crazy fast 5k/10k. You'll probably need to be running 120+ at your peak. Molly Seidel has been running a ton of 120-130 mile weeks, not many women do that. That's why she has emerged as a top marathoner. Kipchoge only peaks around 120 miles per week, but he's also carrying his sub 27 10k, sub 13 5k speed from a decade ago.

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I am already running with a club that has multiple OTQ level guys in it. I think the main problem is that I was traveling so much for weddings this year that I had to squeeze in a lot of key workouts by myself. That will change going forward and I will have the ability to focus on fitting in a social life around running rather than fitting in my running around a social life. I also do think my volume in workouts was a little low, I was basically doing a Tuesday workout that was more of a 10k focused thing, think 5-7x mile in 4:55-5:00 or 8x1k in 3:00-3:05. Then I was doing long runs with sections in them at marathon pace and half marathon pace.

My shorter distance PRs are all from 2009-2010 and are 800- 1:56, 1500- 3:58, 3k - 8:29, 5k - 14:32, 10k - 30:42. This year I ran 15:10 for 5k and 31:18 for 10k in time trials (on the track) and ran 69:55 for the HM 3 weeks before my 2:26.

Obviously stacking mega mileage is ideal but I still have to take into account the fact that I work full time and don't want to completely abandon my wife, friends and family. Also, I never had much success running more than about 105mpw, my body seems to break down beyond that. All of my PRs were run on about 90mpw.

90-100 miles, however, are not a few for those who do not doubles, maybe you should better periodize the different qualities during the year.

(Make a half a lot below the marathon pace 3 weeks before a marathon is not maximum. es Bordin before the Olympic gold medal in '88 did it two weeks earlier but at a marathon pace. If you squeezed yourself into that 69', three weeks before, a half still leaves behind).

In a periodized model the maximum in a half marathon should be 2-3 months before the marathon, when you act to raise the engine power

My advice to you would be to reduce your weekly mileage to about 55- 60 mpw. You are working 50 hours per week and really have to do your training very smart and effective on less time.You need to press your half marathon time down to about 1:06 to have a fair chance at 2:17.You need to do 2-3 quality workouts per week.I see you have good basic sprint speed with your 1:56 at 800 even if many years ago.Would be good for you to hire one of the world's most experienced coaches on low mileage.

This weekly schedule is not sustainable for everyone. I recommend focus on the 2 weekly quality sessions. Ideally one has a good amount of volume. Working up to 15mi at MP. Another good one is 20mi at MP+20sec/mi

Work less.

Sleep more.

Bump up to around 90 a week consistently.

Make sure you are doing workouts with runners of similar ability.

Something I noticed is you said you weighed 15 pounds lighter in college, but couldn't handle the high mileage. I suggest not focusing on weight and just eat enough to feel good, because you don't mention getting injured recently and you ran a good time already. A few pro athletes I've watched YouTube videos of or listened to podcasts talk about weighing more in the off season/build up to make sure their body can handle the training and then they get "diet conscious" in season to make sure they either maintain or lose a little bit of extra (as in, they don't become underweight) weight for peak performances.

My two cents, if you're not doubling, you're missing out. I think if you add a 30 min JOG like lydiard's guys would in the morning and then in the afternoon you do your normal stuff, this will help a lot, especially in the marathon. Basically, you won't reach your peak in the marathon without consistently averaging 90 - 120 minutes per day (varies, but unless you have a lot of speed, aim closer to the 2 hour mark). This also usually means 100 - 120 mpw for most guys, depending on their easy day pace.

840FTL wrote:

This weekly schedule is not sustainable for everyone. I recommend focus on the 2 weekly quality sessions. Ideally one has a good amount of volume. Working up to 15mi at MP. Another good one is 20mi at MP+20sec/mi

I agree it is very much not sustainable, and I think it actually had a net negative on my performance over time. I think for OP, adding some of the points myself and the other posters have suggested would work well to focus on gradual improvements.

Can you suggest some examples of long runs with quality? Also did you do quality in every long run?

Going off of that was the single long run a medium long run or were you doing two long runs each week? Also doubles or no doubles?

OP -- your PBs are fast enough through 10k that you should be able to come really close to the OTQ. I would expect a faster half & full with those PBs. I think mileage is one pretty obvious answer. If you're injury prone I wouldn't just copy what someone else is doing but maybe stick with 1-2 workouts/week (threshold session each week, marathon specific work in the long run every other week, shorter reps can get mixed in during a 1 main workout week, strides or hill sprints 2-3x/week) & 100mpw if that's what you can handle.

Aside from that, take a look at the group workouts. Maybe those aren't the best workouts for your goals. Maybe the periodization isn't there. Maybe you need a better taper. Gotta consider all of those things when you decide on a race & build out a plan.

example runs wrote:

Can you suggest some examples of long runs with quality? Also did you do quality in every long run?

Here's a list of the last 12 ish weeks and the quality Long Runs during them. I think almost every long run I used the original Nike Zoom Fly to get used to have a plate in the shoe. Raced the Marathon in original Nike 4%. I think using races as part of long runs is a big key and helps you practice getting nutrition for race day set, as well as practicing managing nerves.

9/4 - USATF 20km Championships 1:03:35 (5:06/mi)

9/10 - 18 total with 3x3mi @ 5:20, 5:20, 5:10 avg for sets

9/17 - 21 total with 6 x 1 mile "on" 1 mile "off" at 5:04 for "on" average and 5:50 for "off" average

9/24 - 23 total with 20 @ 5:28 avg

10/1 - 19 total with 15 @ 5:21 avg

10/8 - 16 total with 4 x 1 mile from 5:00 to 4:48

10/15 - Half Marathon in 1:07:28

10/22 - 17 total with 8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 min on with 1 min off

10/29 - 20 total with 3 x 15min @ 5:26/mi + 5min @ 5:10/mi all continuous

11/5 - 15 total with 15k race @5:07 avg

11/12 - AM 12 total PM 9 total with 5k XC race

11/19 - 20 total with 10 @ 5:14 avg

11/26 - 12 miles with 4 x 1 mile at 5:05 to 4:57

12//3 - Marathon in 2:18:19

NERunner03533 wrote:

Going off of that was the single long run a medium long run or were you doing two long runs each week? Also doubles or no doubles?

The Midweek Long typically ranged from 20-24 and some days it would be the only run, other days I'd add a double in there too to make the volume pretty high for that day. As for doubles, almost every day was a double with a PM run of 3-6 miles easy. Sometimes PM run after long run workouts including hill sprints as well.

Sounds like you know what you need to do. Go out and do it and you've got a shot.

Increasing mileage will get you down to 2:20. Getting a coach will then get you to OTQ.

-2:56 marathon pb guy.

Darn! I saw the times and thought this about the 800!