Don't know how to structure the tempo run

it has helped you to get where you are and stay where you are. if you want to improve you need to change a stimulus. more volume, more intensity. something.

if you stop doing tempos altogether, you will not maintain your current fitness for very long.

Variation is always healthy. you could do those three workouts in a rotation, or stick with each for a few weeks at a time. many ways to mix things up and keep it fresh.

Do you think there is more fitness to be gained from doing a shorter and faster tempo run, for example 20 minutes @ 6:15, compared to something like 5-7 miles @ 6:30-6:40?

Tempos are the hardest workout to do properly

They have a high suck factor

To run them correctly you should be looking for the following

Heavy legs

The place where your breathing gets labored (as opposed to conversational pace running)

Feel like the lactic acid gorilla crawls on your back

It’s almost easier to run faster

Use Jack Daniels running formula to find correct pace

They suck but sre effective

I would say so, or at least the fitness from 20 minute tempo would be more relevant to running a good 10K than running 5-7 miles at what I'd guess is between marathon / half marathon pace for you. 10-20 minutes is about what I like to do for tempo intervals, totaling about 10% of my weekly mileage- so 3x2miles or 2x3 miles if I'm doing 60 miles per week. ~1 minute of recovery per mile of tempo.

Jimmy James wrote:

I would say so, or at least the fitness from 20 minute tempo would be more relevant to running a good 10K than running 5-7 miles at what I'd guess is between marathon / half marathon pace for you. 10-20 minutes is about what I like to do for tempo intervals, totaling about 10% of my weekly mileage- so 3x2miles or 2x3 miles if I'm doing 60 miles per week. ~1 minute of recovery per mile of tempo.

I agree with this, though I think when you get into tempos that are maybe 20-25 seconds slower/mile than 5k pace, you can do 20 minutes at that fast pace, and then maybe another 20 minutes at that slower 6:30-6:50 kind of pace. Could be on the same day or a different day. Perhaps even as part of a fast finish long run, progression run, or something like that.

I also work brief periods of something around 5-6% at tempo, 8% at 5k pace, 3% at mile pace, 1% at 800 and faster. In this case, The 3 mile Tempo is good enough.

wikid pissah wrote:

Tempos are the hardest workout to do properly

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

tempo321 wrote:

3x10 minute tempo runs @ 6:00-6:10

20 minute temp run @ 6:15-6:20

5 mile tempo @ 6:30-6:40

Tempos are great. You just go out there and run.

Based on your recent 37:40 10k, the 5 mile tempo that you are referencing and claiming you've done a lot is not fast enough to be a tempo for you.

The 3x10:00 @ 6:00 - 6:10 would be good.

The 20:00 should be more like 6:05 - 6:15.

The 5 mile tempo should be more like 6:10 - 6:20.

A tempo as long as that will feel challenging toward the end, but you could even go up to 6 miles.

I think tempo runs are more specific to HM/M

For 5ks training I prefer cruise intervals like:

Alternating 400's @ HM & 5k race pace. I guess you could also call it Over/Unders on your 10k pace.

I'd like these over tempos because they include faster efforts to increase running economy at race pace.

Would like to see a study comparing the two.

Hey! Tempo runs are very beneficial when you run them close to 10k race pace. That’s how I run them and I’ve noticed major gains in my fitness. Also, negative splitting them helps boost confidence.

I think you have it down pretty well. The 3 workouts you listed are all versions of the tempo run. I think your pace should be a little closer together. Maybe you're not getting the benefits of the 5 mile tempo because it's a little too slow. Maybe you're doing the 10:00 reps or 20:00 tempo too fast. I feel like your tempo pace should be 6:15-6:20 or so. It shouldn't really change for the workouts you listed.

I think the 20:00 tempo is too short. I would do 3 x 10:00 off of short jogging rests because you get an additional 10:00 of work in. The straight tempo is good to -- could also do 3-2-1 x mile(s) or 3 x 2 miles or 5-6 x mile, all @ T. Different ways to get in a similar stimulus. I think it's also helpful to do a handful of 200-400 (:30-1:00) type reps after these sessions for turnover. Nothing too big -- 4 x 200m or 5 x 300m or 2-3 x 400m. If on the roads -- 4-6 x :30 or 4 x 1:00.

Many respond much better to intervals at threshold/tempo pace (for you 6.15-6.40) than continuous. 2x10 and 20min is fine, but I would have skipped the 5 mile and rather varied with 30-40min total time as intervals of length 2-10min with 30-60s rest. Sometimes faster and sometimes slower (and more volume). I think your pace is too fast at least for the 2x10. If you do very short reps at 2min the pace at a threshold effort will creep towards the 10k pace, but with 3min and up the pace is basically the same as contious. Breaking up gives many a mental and a very small break that seems to increase the avg pace and quality of the workout without compromizing the aerobic benefit.

I do what I call threshold and easy threshold reps. The first close to threshold effort and the latter at approx 20-25s per mile slower (approx 2h race pace)

This is my recommendation.

tempo321 wrote:

I recently ran a 10k in 37:40. My 5k is probably 18-18:30 (I haven't done one for a while).

I do intervals most weeks.

But I don't know how to do the tempo run. Which of the following would be most effective?

3x10 minute tempo runs @ 6:00-6:10

20 minute temp run @ 6:15-6:20

5 mile tempo @ 6:30-6:40

I've done the 5 mile tempo a lot but it's never seemed to help with my 5 or 10k times. It seems more like a half marathon workout?

Thanks

Based on your fitness, 6:00-6:10 is spot on for 3x10min as well as the 20min tempo. I wouldn't run the 20min tempo any slower than the 3x10min. I find both of those workouts effective, but the 3x10min seems to have a better effect for me. The 5 mile tempo seems like more of a half marathon workout. Pace seems correct for that, for what it's worth.

I agree. I typically like to work the 5 mile tempos in during preseason. Maybe somewhere in the range of 12 to 20 weeks out.

Maybe 2 or 3 of them over a 5 week period or so.

SanDiegorunner wrote:

Hey! Tempo runs are very beneficial when you run them close to 10k race pace. That’s how I run them and I’ve noticed major gains in my fitness. Also, negative splitting them helps boost confidence.

That's what I do. I typically do a 45 minute tempo run, like this

10 mins easy + 10 mins buildup + 15 mins @ 10k pace + 10 mins cool down.

I've tried doing them a bit slower (e.g. 30 minutes @ half marathon pace) but I really do feel like I've gotten way more gainz from going around 10k pace +/- 10 secs for 15 minutes.

tempo321 wrote:

I recently ran a 10k in 37:40. My 5k is probably 18-18:30 (I haven't done one for a while).

I do intervals most weeks.

But I don't know how to do the tempo run. Which of the following would be most effective?

3x10 minute tempo runs @ 6:00-6:10

20 minute temp run @ 6:15-6:20

5 mile tempo @ 6:30-6:40

I've done the 5 mile tempo a lot but it's never seemed to help with my 5 or 10k times. It seems more like a half marathon workout?

Thanks

Your first suggestion is not a tempo run and the second is too short. When you try to run a tempo, don't you have a feel for what's fast but not the effort of racing? I didn't have a Strata watch so I would check the time on a clock at the HS at the start and not know my time until I returned but it almost always turned out to be about 5:30 pace for 6 miles compared to probably being capable of 5:10 at the time all-out.

Your interval training will have the most affect on 5/10K times.