How untalented am I?

You are a mid-distance runner.

A person who once ran 4:27 is more than enough talented to run 2:40, possibly 2:30. There is someone who in college ran 8:20's 3k as their best race, and only about 15:00 for track 5k and has a 2:12 PR. But they run 130+ miles per week in the peak of their buildup now. You say you're running 'nearly' 100 miles a week in every buildup. That may not be enough for you. Really I don't think you're doing a proper marathon buildup to run FAST unless you're well above 100. I think 10k buildups should hit 100 miles per week, Joe Klecker hits 100-105 in his peak mileage. Half marathon I think you can get up to 105-115. Marathon 115-140.

So do more than your 95 mile week during your buildup. And do long workouts. I don't know what workouts you do, but so many people run short marathon workouts like 10 x 1k or 6 x mile, these are 10k workouts or barely half marathon workouts. You need some long stuff where you're running a half marathon or more. Run 14-16 miles at marathon pace, run fartleks where you cover 15 miles during the fartlek, do progression long runs where you run 20+ miles starting at easy pace, MP + 30-40 seconds halfway through, and Marathon Pace the last couple miles before a mile cooldown. Get used to grinding. You've had plenty of speed, you need to become a grinder to run a good marathon.

You're obviously far more talented than the average person. Your question should just be "Can I run 2:30?"

your 5K seems way slow compared to your mile and 3K. did you not focus on that in college or do you just fall apart after 3K? if the latter, then i'm actually surprised you put together that fast of a marathon. you should try another 5k with that base.

signed, a guy with basically the same mile time who ran 16:13 (which is still way slower than it should be)

Sure, I think OP could run 2:30 on 140mpw. But *should* he? He already seems demoralized. He probably knows several people who never broke 4:40 in the mile, yet are dusting him in the Marathon on 70-80mpw. If it takes me double my old college buddy's mileage to match his PR, I would feel vastly inferior rather than superior.

Much of the joy in competitive running is in doing things that your peers cannot do. Too many post-collegiate middle distance runners fall into a trap of thinking distances far out of their natural range are the be-all-end-all and end up exactly like OP.

I for one would rather see OP maintain 100mpw but take a shot at his 5k and 10k PRs which were likely done on less mileage than 100mpw. Here, he has a better shot of running times that his old college buddies cannot. And suddenly the motivation and competitive drive comes back.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

You're obviously far more talented than the average person. Your question should just be "Can I run 2:30?"

Right? Of course there are people who can never break 2:30, or 2:40, or 3:00. OP’s marathons are basically in line with his 5k/10k times. Maybe he’ll break through and lop a chunk off that 2:44, but acting like anyone and everyone should be able to run 5:44 pace for 26.2 is deluded.

90% of men can't break 3 hours regardless of how they train. 99% of men can't break 2:30.

First: If you are fixated on time maybe make your goal Marathon not Boston which is erratic as far as weather, wind and the challenging nature of the course.

Second: Your PBs indicate you have solid speed, but some challenge in converting that to your distance PBs. So, maybe there are some adjustments in your training that you can make that don't come down to purely mileage and time spent.

Your 5K and 10K times tell me you're a mid-distance guy. I don't think your marathon PR is too out of line.

That said, you need to focus on getting your half marathon time down, and also continuing with long runs of at least 20 miles, maybe 22 miles six weeks out from a target marathon. Then look at a flatter course for a PR effort.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

You're obviously far more talented than the average person. Your question should just be "Can I run 2:30?"

Right? Of course there are people who can never break 2:30, or 2:40, or 3:00. OP’s marathons are basically in line with his 5k/10k times. Maybe he’ll break through and lop a chunk off that 2:44, but acting like anyone and everyone should be able to run 5:44 pace for 26.2 is deluded.

My point is a guy that can run 4:27 is not untalented. His PRs indicate that he might be more of a middle distance guy, but that doesn't mean he has no talent.

Why not train for 800? You might find you have more talent for that than marathon. Enjoy your speed, no need to slog.

...and based on your mile time, you clearly have some talent.

You have running talent, no question about that.

But there is a difference being good at track running or being a Marathon runner.

It's not like all top track runners are successful in Marathon, it's probably quite the opposite.

Maybe try to run less weekly miles for awhile and concentrate a bit more on speed over half marathon.

But at the end you will hit your personal limit like everybody else.

Good luck.

If you want to feel better look at Alan Webb’s marathon times... and he wasn’t just an awesome miler, he still ran 27:34 10000m!

If you really want to unlock your full potential you’ll need to enjoy the process of running high mileage. Don’t think about your worth is only as good as your prs. Enjoy the process, enjoy the scenery of each run.

Maybe switch running for mileage with running for time. Then you’ll know how long each run will take and it won’t seem as daunting getting out the door.

snowdays wrote:

You are a mid-distance runner.

I think that's absolutely true.

I ran 4:20 mile, 8:45 - 3000m, 15:20 5000m and 32:20 10k - my marathon 2:47.30.

That was on a flat course (London), pleasant day, and near perfect pacing (30 seconds difference between first and second half). I didn't get to 100 mile weeks, but had 20 years of running behind me (age 36) at that point, and I don't think any training could have got me under 2:40 let alone 2:30.

On the other hand, I could do high 11.xx for last 100m of 150m acceleration runs.

I was too heavy and too slow twitch to ever run a decent marathon (or half for that matter).

Boulderrunner5 wrote:

I know I don’t have fast PRs, but I guess what I’m asking is are some people just that untalented that they can’t break 2:40?

Yes. More than 99% of people. I don't know whether you are in the top 1% or the top 0.5%. based on what you wrote.

But to answer the question in the title, you are super-talented.

Gotta spend some time working on your 5k/10k. Should focus there before spending a ton of time on the marathon. You're running the kind of times your 5k/10k times suggest. Your shorter distance PRs say you can run sub-2:30. Time to work on your strength. You seem plenty talented. I can't touch your mile but I've run faster 5k-marathon. I would probably have benefited at one time or another training mile to 5k range.

I have similar 5K/10K bests to you, and much slower mile/3K bests. Never broke 2:50 for the marathon. Depends if you have undeveloped aerobic capacity, or if you are more of a pure speed guy.

You're not untalented. I am much slower than you and will be happy to break 3:15 in the marathon.

Be grateful for your talent!