With some fall marathons behind us, I was wondering if anyone used the hansons training from Running Times and how it went.
With some fall marathons behind us, I was wondering if anyone used the hansons training from Running Times and how it went.
bump
40 kilometers a day at altitude.
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: Success with the Marathon Training
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I am taking this opportunity to both toot our own horn as well as congratulate a couple of guys that I have never met that used our marathon training program. They read the program in Running Times and asked if they could use it for a group. I said absolutly as long as you let me know the results.
Here is the letter.
Kevin,
I had written you earlier in the year to ask about
organizing an S.O.S. group in the Chicago area. I
wanted to let you know what the outcome was.
I spread the word, posted some flyers, and even put
together a little website. Despite these efforts I
only managed to get one brave person to join me. Funny
thing though, now that the race is complete and our
results are in, suddenly interest is high!
I am 31 and had completed 5 Chicago's before embarking
on the S.O.S. program. The result -- I ran a sub 3:07,
lowering my PR by 16 minutes. In addition, I pulled
off a negative. My family and running friends were all
in shock after the race! All of them were stunned, all
of them except one...
The "one" was the brave soul who joined me in the
program. He's a 43-year old who was running in his
fourth marathon. He did a 3:51 in Chicago last year
and a 3:41 up in Green Bay this last April. Well, he
shattered his PR with a 3:24.
Kevin, I can't tell you how eye opening this program
was. We both ran more days per week and more miles,
and stayed healthier. We brushed off the "20 mile"
comments and trusted the program. The balance and
consistency really tested us at times, but clearly
paid off in the end. We hit times that we prevously
only dreamed of.
I really hope to get a big group together next year
and spread the word. This approach makes too much
sense to not share! If you have had interest from
anyone else in the Chicago area about starting a
group, or have any ideas, please let me know.
In closing I'd like to thank you and your brother for
everything you do to support the running community. It
is so great what you guys are doing to make running
better at every level. Keep up the terrific work!
Thanks Again!
Joe D'Amico
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kimara
Guest
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: marathon training
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I am a 35 year old female, "jogger" definately not fast. I have run 1 marathon, numerous other race distances and tri's and this year am using the Hanson program. I have noticed my times are better and by looking at my training log I know I am stronger. The problem is I don't physically feel stronger. My legs are frequently tired and don't feel fresh. And like all the old time runners, I worry that I won't be ready if I don't do a 20 miler. I guess I need reassurance that these things/feelings are normal.
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CONTINUED
Kevin Hanson
Guest
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject:
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First of all STOP calling yourself a jogger. A jogger is not someone that follows a schedule. You are in a routine with a solid goal. That makes you a runner. It has everything to do with your level of committment and nothing to do with your pace.
If your reassurance didn't come fron the above testemonial, let me share another one that I received yesterday.
Hi Guys:
Just wanted to say thanks for creating a fantastic training program. I followed your program to the letter, training to run a 3:35 at the Chicago Marathon. The night before the race, I had my doubts about my longest training run being only 16 miles, but I kept my faith in the overall higher mileage that I put in with your program. Come race day I ran consistently negative splits and finished with a 3:30.07, a new PR by more than 20 minutes! I never hit the wall and finished strong.
Last year I trained with a different plan and bonked big time at mile 22.
Thanks for creating a plan that made 10/9/05 a great day for me. Keep up the great work.
Chris Curtis
Elkhart, IN
I've been following their training program (with the additional advantage of attending their clinics, since I live in the Detroit area). Can't report on marathon results yet - I'm running NYC on Sunday - but I've definitely improved at shorter distances.
(Was feeling pretty confident about NYC, until I got a load of the weather forecast for this weekend - 72 degrees! Yikes!)
can someone post the schedule?
This past months article in Running Times did an excellent job of describing our program. However, some folks thought that it was an easy way out and IT IS NOT. We feel that the key to a good marathon is 1. Realistic Goal 2.Judge of Pace 3. The ability to deal with cumulative fatigue. The plan below is designed to teach all 3. If I am dealing with a marathoner that has already run one marathon and is averaging 60 miles a week, the following schedule would be appropriate. It does not matter if he/she has a goal of 2:30 or 4:00 hours. However, if you are running closer to 70 miles a week, then the first thing I would do is get rid of the day off. Do not add to the long run until after you are ready to handle in excess of 80 miles per week.
WARNING DO NOT PICK AND CHOOSE WITH THIS PROGRAM AS DAY ONE SETS UP DAY TWO AND SO ON AND SO ON. Nearly every failure comes from picking and choosing.
Speed workouts (3 miles worth of repeats at 10k goal pace) are appropriate for the first half of the marathon training segment. By the time you get to the Strength workouts (6 miles worth of repeats at 10 seconds faster than marathon pace) you should already be SET on your marathon goal. Running these workouts faster than marathon pace is harmful and will inevitably lead to failure. It is very important to learn pace.
Tempo runs are also a chance to learn pace. These should be run at marathon pace.
Physiologically we know that any workout you do today will take 10 days to benefit the body. You may receive a more immediate impact psychologically, but not physically. This is the same reason that most beginners quit in the first few days of a running program (they see zero improvement). It is actually worse than that because you do receive the negative effects (soreness, tightness, and fatigue), but none of the positives. Keeping this same principle in mind, let us talk about the LONG RUN.
In the 10 days prior to your 16 mile long run you will have run 2 tempo runs, and one strength run. Going into your long run this is all negative in terms of fatigue that the body has not yet had the opportunity to benefit from. So when you step into your long run, the body feels tired (like it has already run 10 miles). So your 16 miler is simulating the last 16 miles of the marathon and not the first 16. It does take a small leap of faith to teach your mind this. I truly spend over an hour during each clinic trying to hammer this point home. I am sure that I did not do justice in a couple of poorly written paragraphs.
The other major difference in our plan is the taper. I believe that the key to a great taper is to rest the body without the body knowing that it is being rested. For example we should probably just take 10 days off since we are not giving the body any additional physiological benefits. However, the body would perform poorly. WHY? Because the body starves for consistency. Too much rest makes the body lethargic. It is similar to the guy that sleeps 7 hours every day and then decides he needs more rest so he sleeps 10 hours. He usually finds that he feels out of whack and lethargic.
good luck and enjoy running,
Kevin Hanson
WEEK 1
Sun. 8
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 6
Fri. 6
Sat. 6
WEEK 2
Sun. 8
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 6 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 6
WEEK 3
Sun. 10
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 6 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 8
WEEK 4
Sun. 8
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 6 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat.6
WEEK 5
Sun. 12
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 7 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 6
Sun. 8
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 7 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 7
Sun. 14
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 7 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 8
Sun. 10
Mon. 8
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 8 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 9
Sun. 15
Mon. 6
Tue. Speed
Wed. Off
Thur. 8 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 10
Sun. 10
Mon. 8
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 8 tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 11
Sun. 16
Mon. 6
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 9 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 12
Sun. 10
Mon. 8
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 9 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 13
Sun. 16
Mon. 6
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 9 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 14
Sun. 10
Mon. 8
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 10 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 15
Sun. 16
Mon. 6
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 10 Tempo
Fri. 6
Sat. 10
WEEK 16
Sun. 10
Mon. 8
Tue. Strength
Wed. Off
Thur. 10 Tempo
Fri. 7
Sat. 8
WEEK 17
Sun. 8
Mon. 6
Tue. 5
Wed. Off
Thur. 6
Fri. 6
Sat. 3
WEEK 18
Sun. Marathon
Speed: 3 miles of intervals at 10K goal pace.
Strength: 6 miles of intervals at 10 seconds faster than marathon goal pace.
Tempo: Marathon goal pace.
god would anyone ever really follow a program like this? this whole long run/tempo thing is definitely not the way to go. unless you want to get injured.
I'm probably going to give the Hansons program a shot for a spring marathon. Just winding down using a Pzitzinger plan (55 miles/18 weeks). They don't seem all that different, except the lack of 20 milers. I'd bet a faster paced 16 miler is sufficient in place of a slower 20.
BASIC training tenets - you condition your body to run for the event. in the marathon you need to be able to 1. hold a certain speed and 2. be able to run a long long time. if you shortchange one of those components, you are not optimally conditioning your body. it shocks me that Running Times printed this BS.
The program is very sound for the un-elite. For the average joe jogger it will work if you follow it. It isn't for anyone that ran in college probably at any level. I think they make it known for those it's intended for.
even still, would you give it to a beginner marathoner - the long run is one of the most important parts of marathon training. sure one "can get by" on this training. just like i could make a program where all they do is 10x400 @ half mara pace and a long run a week, and the person will do fine. but it's _best_ if they get the long run in. why shoot for mediocrity and safety - instead try to maximize your training. this program does not do the latter.
How does running 20-23 miles at 7:30 pace teach one to hold 5:30 pace or faster for a marathon? Why not just build in 3 hour long bike rides or eliptical workouts to build mitochondria or optimize glycogen utilization and fat burning? (The cardiovascular system can't differentiate between activities) There are multiples ways to approach any problem.
point is - you should do both. running 5:30 miles doesn't teach your body how to sustain itself over 3hrs+. sure a lot of people get by just focusing on one or the other, and it's usually because they ran out of time to train or had an injury or work was tough or whatever, but if you're going to properly train for marathon, do both.
RT wrote:
The program is very sound for the un-elite. For the average joe jogger it will work if you follow it. It isn't for anyone that ran in college probably at any level. I think they make it known for those it's intended for.
I had never broke 3 hrs in 11 attempts at the marathon. The first time I did this program I ran 2:54. I understand that I am not elite, but I don't see myself as Joe Jogger either.
Define Joe jogger wrote:
RT wrote:The program is very sound for the un-elite. For the average joe jogger it will work if you follow it. It isn't for anyone that ran in college probably at any level. I think they make it known for those it's intended for.
I had never broke 3 hrs in 11 attempts at the marathon. The first time I did this program I ran 2:54. I understand that I am not elite, but I don't see myself as Joe Jogger either.
OK I can give you that. I didn't really explain myself that well. i think you're in a gray area where you could benefit from a different type of program. the 6:00-7:00 pace average guys i would put in that category. i think guys that are under 6:00 aren't getting the most out of themselves through that program, but guys over 7:00 could definately use it.
That is fair. I will give you that. I will never run 2:37 or 6 minute pace. I do believe that I can run under 2:45 under this program though.
I guess I get a little defensive of the program when I see so many folks falling into the grasps of "the 20 miler". I fell into it 11 times. The Hansons have testemonial after testemonial and I am now one of them that they can add to their list.
This is the first time that I have been in a program that made sense EVERYDAY and not just a couple days of the week. It is important to remember (what had to be shoved down my throat) that the 16 mile runs are simulating the last 16 miles of the race and not the first 16. I never taperd for a long run in the Hanson program like I did in other programs. This meant that I went into my 16 milers fatigued and learned to run long in a fatigued state. I never did this while running 20 milers in previous schedules.
I'd like to thank the Hansons for the excellent
marathon training clinic sessions that I attended this
summer at your Royal Oak store. I experienced very
positive results with the program, culminating with a
19-minute PR at last Sunday's Grand Rapids marathon.
This was my third marathon, and I ran a 3:24 compared
to a prior best of 3:43 at Detroit in 2004. I am
planning to use the Hansons program again next year to
try to run a 3:15 and qualify for Boston.
Perhaps more important than the race day results, I
really enjoyed following the progression of your
training program. Last year I used a different
program that included 20-mile runs which made up about
half of my weekly mileage, took me over 3 hours to
complete, and left me tired for a couple days
afterward. Not surprisingly, I had some very
lackluster midweek runs where I felt lousy and quit
early. I found that on the Hansons program, this was
not a problem. I was able to complete every run on
the schedule. I ran more days each week and more
total weekly miles, but never felt completely wiped
out by any single run before the marathon. This made
training more enjoyable, and also easier to balance
with work and family commitments.
Thanks again and best wishes for continued success
with the Distance Program.
Best regards,
Adam Stam
Berkley, MI
I'd like to thank the Hansons for the excellent
marathon training clinic sessions that I attended this
summer at your Royal Oak store. I experienced very
positive results with the program, culminating with a
19-minute PR at last Sunday's Grand Rapids marathon.
This was my third marathon, and I ran a 3:24 compared
to a prior best of 3:43 at Detroit in 2004. I am
planning to use the Hansons program again next year to
try to run a 3:15 and qualify for Boston.
Perhaps more important than the race day results, I
really enjoyed following the progression of your
training program. Last year I used a different
program that included 20-mile runs which made up about
half of my weekly mileage, took me over 3 hours to
complete, and left me tired for a couple days
afterward. Not surprisingly, I had some very
lackluster midweek runs where I felt lousy and quit
early. I found that on the Hansons program, this was
not a problem. I was able to complete every run on
the schedule. I ran more days each week and more
total weekly miles, but never felt completely wiped
out by any single run before the marathon. This made
training more enjoyable, and also easier to balance
with work and family commitments.
Thanks again and best wishes for continued success
with the Distance Program.
Best regards,
Adam Stam
Berkley, MI