Top D3 or mid-major D1?

i cant sub 5 :( wrote:

I ran 4:34/9:34 my junior track season and am now trying to figure out colleges. I know it depends somewhat on the person, but in general, would I be able to develop as an athlete more at a top-20 D3 school or a mid-major D1 school? I am currently talking to coaches from both types of schools. All have good academics, so that isn't a problem either.

This is dependent on the school and the coaching there. There are lots of colleges where good runners go to never get better. A lot of times it's the atmosphere at those schools and then the reason why the athlete chose that school. For example, athletes don't always get better at "party schools". Not JUST because the schools are party schools, but because the athlete CHOSE the school because it was a party school and that was important to them.

Look at the rosters of schools you ae interested in. Look up the athletes on milesplit (if you don't have a subscription, get one for this purpose). See which schools have most of their athletes get better. Make sure the current coaching staff (head coach for sure) was there for the improvement of the athletes.

Good luck!

Look for the school and program that fits you best. Like 99% of people (including myself) you most likely aren't going pro, so look for a school where you can develop (depends on coaching, team environment, etc.) and have a good learning environment. Go on visits, meet coaches and teams, look into classes, and you'll find the place that fits you, D1 or D3.

A. Keep talking to both schools if they seem like good fits. More than one school will be a fit.

B. Ask coaches for specific examples of athletes improving based on their training and how they adapt their training to each individual athlete's needs.

Look at academics and cost. The coach could leave tomorrow.

I ran in the low 9:20s in the 2 mile in high school and chose to go to a top D3. I had a great experience at my school and raced at nationals several times in my college career. If I had gone to a mid-major D1 school, those nationals experiences probably would have been conference championships instead. To me, the ability to compete at the highest level in your division is a lot more exciting than being just another runner.

Developing as an athlete is more dependent on the coach and the training system rather than if it's a D1 or D3 school. My D3 school has a D1 mentality in every way except giving athletic scholarships (I'm guessing this is the same at most top D3 schools). 2 kids from my high school conference with similar times went the D1 route and I beat them head to head a couple times in college.

Counterpoint, I had similar times to the OP, went the D3 route. Great time, but I was always left wondering "what if..?" because I bypassed the D1 route.

Would I have been faster because I went D1 and faced increased competition? Personally Id trade a D3 conf championship, for a better PR and running mid-pack D1.

Only my opinion.

How fast did you run? Most 9:20 guys top out at 14:30 and never get to compete at the conference track or cross country meet unless they run at a crappy school in a crappy conference. That seem worse than D3 to me.

What is your personal financial cost? D3 has no athletic scholarships. What about D2? NAIA?

Go where you can get the most money.

As long as you have teammates to chase and competitors to chase you will be just fine.

In 99.99999% of cases where you go to school means absolutely nothing to an employer.

Athletically it's all up to you. What feather do you want to boast about in your late 20s? "I was a D1 Athlete, etc etc I'm so cool".

/End Thread.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

What is your personal financial cost? D3 has no athletic scholarships. What about D2? NAIA?

Go where you can get the most money.

As long as you have teammates to chase and competitors to chase you will be just fine.

In 99.99999% of cases where you go to school means absolutely nothing to an employer.

Athletically it's all up to you. What feather do you want to boast about in your late 20s? "I was a D1 Athlete, etc etc I'm so cool".

/End Thread.

Alan

D1, bro. D1.

Runningart2004 wrote:

What is your personal financial cost? D3 has no athletic scholarships. What about D2? NAIA?

Go where you can get the most money.

As long as you have teammates to chase and competitors to chase you will be just fine.

In 99.99999% of cases where you go to school means absolutely nothing to an employer.

Athletically it's all up to you. What feather do you want to boast about in your late 20s? "I was a D1 Athlete, etc etc I'm so cool".

/End Thread.

Alan

D3 includes a lot of private schools that can provide academic scholarships.

I agree to a point on the money thing. Start looking at how much you would have to pay out of pocket. Have a ton of student loans post graduation leaves you in a pretty tough position post college.

Start looking into potential for connections so that you have a great pipeline into a good career post college. Pick the college you feel like you'll enjoy for the next 4 years, even if your coach leaves, you change majors, or heck even decide to stop running.

Newkirk wrote:

Look at academics and cost. The coach could leave tomorrow.

This. You can develop as a runner anywhere, but ultimately it is of little significance in your life. D3 is non-scholarship and D1 wouldn't offer a scholarship for those times. If the D1 is public and the tuition is affordable, I would go there. D3 schools tend to be over priced.

It’s all program to program. Stop looking at division and figure it out from there.

I hear a lot of people say that you don’t want to go D1 because you won’t be given attention unless you are a top athlete. That hasn’t been the case for me but it is something to consider.

Take your potential coaches attitude into perspective too. Recruiting is a 2 way process. You want a coach that wants to know your story, wants to find the best way for you to succeed, and a coach that seems genuine. With your times, you sit in the walk-on zone for D1 skill, and that’s considering that your mile may be weaker than what you are capable of. My main advice is that you shouldn’t choose a shiny program where the coach says “yeah you meet our walk on standards and we have roster space, congrats” than maybe a smaller program where the coach is more enthusiastic about you.

Runningart2004 wrote:

What is your personal financial cost? D3 has no athletic scholarships. What about D2? NAIA?

Go where you can get the most money.

As long as you have teammates to chase and competitors to chase you will be just fine.

In 99.99999% of cases where you go to school means absolutely nothing to an employer.

Athletically it's all up to you. What feather do you want to boast about in your late 20s? "I was a D1 Athlete, etc etc I'm so cool".

/End Thread.

Alan

I'm planning on majoring on business or finance (although I'm not 100% set on these), and correct me if I'm wrong but the networking provided by more academically "prestigious" colleges can be important when it comes to these majors. If I were disregarding academic prestige I would be knocking on the doors of a bunch of D2 schools.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I think the networking provided by going to a "better" school is important when you're a business/finance major.

This.

Yes! School does matter, especially if you want to work in competitive field or competitive location. Going to a 'name' college and getting a good internship will get you in the door. Going to a middling school or even good state school will not get you into a top entry level job.

Pick for academics. The team and coach can also have an effect but make sure your priority is what comes after college.

All the best!

Pretty same boat, except I was a bit faster over 1600m and probably better over cross country (state meet, Foot Locker)... I received 100% covered costs from D3 (Centennial Conference) and D1 (Conference USA) and opted to go with D1. What made the decision was size of talent pool. I would have to work hard to make Top 7 at the CUSA program but on high school times alone I was already Top 5 at CC school. Just go with your gut.

had the same experience too... Went D3 and regularly beat guys that had similar times to me in HS that went D1/D2

And if your goal is to go into the business/finance world, you don't necessarily need to major in business or finance. Major in something you find interesting and can do well in. What you want to do is to get internships, so look for a school that works to get students into such.

You won't really learn much about business in any undergraduate program. A few summers of hanging around people actually doing business will teach you a lot more, if you pay attention.

If you interview for internships, the one thing not to do, in my opinion, is to talk about how much an internship will do for you. Tell them that you want to learn, and you will do any crap task they give you to the best of your ability. If you actually do this, you will likely be given better opportunities and build a reputation that will get you hired somewhere.

Go where facilitates your social future, which is not as a professional runner.