Feasibility of breaking 5 min in mile for aging jogger

*mile repeat sessions

Dumb typo.

Sounds very doable to me. Will likely need a bit more consistent mileage and speed work (like 200 and 400 repeats at goal pace).

Jack Daniels' mile plan (from the book Daniels Running Formula) might be a good starting point.

5 min mile translates to close to 17 min 5K. Age wise you're still okay but you have to train much harder than before.

Really hard to say without seeing you train shorter stuff.

Some youtube guy ran less than you at like >25 BMI and ran 4:40 with some enhanced burritos.

Moo G wrote:

5 min mile translates to close to 17 min 5K. Age wise you're still okay but you have to train much harder than before.

I agree.

The goal is totally feasible though. You have years left that you could still improve a lot from where you are/have been.

It sounds like you realize that you don't really have good results in the past (19:00 5k), but you also only did up to 30 mpw of easy running for training so that should be expected.

You could get to your 5:00 mile goal on 30 mpw, but a little more would help. Like others said 200 and 400 repeats at mile pace and faster will be required.

Given 19 min/5:40 when you were younger on not a lot but still some training I am going to go with it is going to be tough. Not impossible but I suspect you are going to have to work very very hard to get down close to 5 minutes.

Do you have any sense for how fast you could go out and run a 200 or 400 right now? If you can hit 63-65 for a 400 you have a much better shot than 65+

I think it is doable since you are not really aging much yet. Yes there are statistics saying you slow down on average 0.7% per year after 30, but it is all individual and it is anyway depending on your theoretical max level. It sounds like you have not reached the potential and could experience great improvement just by training well and that it takes many years before the rate of improvement meets the rate of age decline. I would not worry about age and just assess how much effort you are prepared to put in and then go on making the most out of that in terms of workouts and makeup of the training. Obviously, just easy running won't do it since we talk of 5min race time and faster than VO2max pace. You need of course an aerobic capacity, but also learn those legs running fast. I find it key for master runners to care for power and strength and anaerobic capacity so short and fast speedwork to create an efficient running form when running fast.

What would do a better progress?

I am a bit like OP, but except that I am even slower and am 32 years old. I am running for a few years, and last year I ran a lot with the lockdowns, averaging 80km/per week. I did my 5k record in the fall at 20:15 and injured my knee a week later which set me back and and made me stop for nearly two months.

I am back at around that level and running 60km/per week.

I have started doing strength training with squats and lunges one time per week. I think that what set me back the most is that I have a quite short stride and to go fast I need to up the cadence which is tiring. My goal would be to run something like 18:30 5k. I have started to do 6*150m just to work on the form and I noticed that I did them at 5:30 pace initially and now at 5:10 a month later.

Are going faster more a question of strength or more a question of habits and relaxed strides?

In physical terms going faster is about creating more force at each step, regardless of cadence. This depends on the sustainable energetic processes in the muscles. Different training can give improvement of this. For aging runners or for runners not yet reaching their potential, all abilities is needed.

Research show that even runners at an elite level can improve racing times with strength, plyo and sprint work. Hill sprints have shown to give such an improvement by itself so just progressing to doing say 10x10-20s hill sprints twice a week can efficiently give the needed capacity building. This is as a complement to other workouts, not instead of

age-wise you're fine, got another 7 -10 years where this is doable. As noted, not easy. Maybe hook up with a running group/club in the area that does track workouts once/week? If you do all your running solo, might help to run with at least 1 other occasionally to get you out of your comfort zone.

highhoppingworm wrote:Given 19 min/5:40 when you were younger on not a lot but still some training I am going to go with it is going to be tough. Not impossible but I suspect you are going to have to work very very hard to get down close to 5 minutes.

I agree with this. Given your results off low mileage and no mile-specific training (or even 5K-specific it sounds), you may well have the potential. But even if so, it's gonna require some dedication. The "17-flat 5K = 5:00 mile" mentioned previously sounds pretty accurate.

I'm chiming in because at 43, I also tried to break 5:00, and only managed 5:08 (three attempts -- two track races and one road mile).

At the time, I was regularly racing 5K at 17:10 to 17:30. Running about 45 mpw, 5K-type workouts. No mile-specific training, but was still surprised I wasn't even close to sub-5.

My PR, from age 17, was 4:45, and in my early 20s could run mile repeats at 5:10. Twenty years later, a lot more challenging. Good luck!

Thanks for this suggestion - an old classic. I just bought the book.

True enough. I think I'll have to train harder than before both because of my previous lackluster results, and, perhaps, because of age and increasing fatness....

I am motivated.

Not to doubt the validity of this 5k-mile equivalency, but I'm inclined to think that breaking the five-minute barrier would be more attainable. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the significance of this event time translation, but it would seem that the mile, by dint of being shorter, should be sort of easier. Or maybe that's just wrongheaded. In any case, I think I've got about a snowball's chance in hell of dropping under 17 min in the 5k. Hope my prospects for the mile are better.

Haha...don't have access to that stuff and frankly wouldn't want the boost. I am around BMI 25 though, and suspect that dropping about 10-15 pounds would help a lot!

I'm thinking about approaching this in a scaffolded kind of way. First, I need to improve my base. I'm thinking that there's value in trying to maintain 40ish miles per week for a while, with some threshold and hills/strides incorporated, before transitioning into true mile training. (Will consult Daniels plan.)

Do you think it would be sensible to incorporate 200/400 repeats from early on, during said base period, before transitioning into more formal and intensive mile training?

Nope, definitely could not run a 65 second quarter. I think I could go under 70 seconds, but probably not by much.

kirkandorules wrote:

Sounds very doable to me. Will likely need a bit more consistent mileage and speed work (like 200 and 400 repeats at goal pace).

Jack Daniels' mile plan (from the book Daniels Running Formula) might be a good starting point.

Thanks for this suggestion - an old classic. I just bought the book.

Moo G wrote:

5 min mile translates to close to 17 min 5K. Age wise you're still okay but you have to train much harder than before.

True enough. I think I'll have to train harder than before both because of my previous lackluster results, and, perhaps, because of age and increasing fatness....

I am motivated.

Not to doubt the validity of this 5k-mile equivalency, but I'm inclined to think that breaking the five-minute barrier would be more attainable. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the significance of this event time translation, but it would seem that the mile, by dint of being shorter, should be sort of easier. Or maybe that's just wrongheaded. In any case, I think I've got about a snowball's chance in hell of dropping under 17 min in the 5k. Hope my prospects for the mile are better.

aIIez wrote:

Really hard to say without seeing you train shorter stuff.

Some youtube guy ran less than you at like >25 BMI and ran 4:40 with some enhanced burritos.

Haha...don't have access to that stuff and frankly wouldn't want the boost. I am around BMI 25 though, and suspect that dropping about 10-15 pounds would help a lot!