Lactate testing protocols

Would Hadd's 2400m test at increasing hr rates work?

Have 5 stages in your test.

Make the 4th stage marathon pace (M-pace) and have the others as follows:

Each stage should be 2400m (or a minimum of 8 mins long)

Stage 1: M-pace plus 60 secs per mile

Stage 2: M-pace plus 40 secs per mile

Stage 3: M-pace plus 20 secs per mile

Stage 4: M-pace

Stage 5: M-pace minus 20 secs per mile

e.g.:

Stage 1: 7.00m/m

Stage 2: 6:40m/m

Stage 3: 6.20m/m

Stage 4: 6.00m/m

Stage 5: 5:40m/m

I have to say I disagree with Here's The Deal. 8 minutes is very long for a lactate protocol - 4 - 6' will do it. You want to get to a steady state point, but dragging it out only adds fatigue and affects later work bouts negatively. And I'd limit it to 3 protocols instead of 5. Even two would be sufficient if your results work for you.

Test 1 - aerobic capacity

Bout 1 - aerobic pace - maybe MP + :30 (your results should elicit a value of less than 4mmol - otherwise bag the test and do it again later with a slower pace)

Bout 2 - MP

Bout 3 - (if needed) MP -:30

I would use 1200m - 1600m repeats depending on how fast you are to stay in the 4 - 6' range. 3' recovery - passive

If after bout 1 (less than 4mmol), test 2 is over 4 mmol, you are done. Take the measurement about 1' after completing the run. Graph the two numbers and extrapolate pace at 4mmol value - this represents your current aerobic capacity.

Test 2 - anaerobic capacity - after a 20' VERY SLOW jog and a few minutes of passive rest.

1 x roughly 60" (300 - 400m) depending on how fast you are ALL OUT FROM THE START

Measure lactate every 2 min. until it begins to go down again. The maximum point represents your anaerobic capacity.

Now you can have a full understanding of your physiology and how different types of training affect these energy systems. For a marathoner you would hope to have a very high pace at the 4 mmol value or a high aerobic capacity and your anaerobic capacity should be very low as you approach the marathon. Mid way through training, AnC might actually be moderately high to allow for "speed training" (VO2 Max type paces)- it's all relative to the event you're training for.

Int J Sports Med. 1996 Jul;17(5):360-5

Comparison of blood lactate concentrations obtained during incremental and constant intensity exercise.

Foxdal P, Sjodin A, Sjodin B.

Dept. of Clinical Physiology, University Hopital, Uppsala, Sweden.

Differences in blood lactate concentrations obtained during step-wise incremental and constant running exercise at the same intensities were investigated. In addition, the effect of endurance running at a constant intensity obtained by three different incremental modes (OBLA-4, 6 or 8 min) on the blood lactate concentration were studied.

It is concluded that step-wise incremental exercise with durations of 4 or 6 min will lead to a high risk of overestimating the maximal lactate steady state exercise intensity and the endurance running capacity.

You're completely right - as is the study. It was 6:30 a.m. when I was thinking about that and actually last spring when I was doing testing, my results were coming out a bit screwy and the reason - too short of work bouts. My resources say to go longer than 5' - so 8' would work. I'm used to using 1600m for test distance because aerobic pace for many of my athletes is 7:00+. For my females 8:00+. Then we drop from there and are still in excess of 5'. We started with 1200m and results were a bit off. I did have problems with 8' being long and athletes getting fatigued at the faster paced work bouts, but I'm also dealing with a young group of poorly trained athletes vs. a marathoner who should have no trouble with 8' workbouts.

Here's the Deal - I stand corrected.

Thanks for the responses.

Is 4m/ml the highest amount of lacatate one can maintain for a marathon -- goal is sub -- three.

No, absolutely not. 4 mmol is an arbitrary value that as long as you keep using it, you can gauge aerobic fitness by the speed at which you run that elicits a 4mmol value. Slower running means lower aerobic fitness and vice versa. An actual lactate value that you can maintain would be very individual. Here's the deal might have some references that give ranges perhaps? You might wear a heart rate monitor while you test to get a heart rate value at a given pace and compare that to the lactate value. From that you might be able to eventually get a heart rate range that would be maintainable for 26 miles.

I need a test to find the lactate threshold and then a maximal lactate.

So I have planned 5x2000m, where the 3rd bout is a slower then my estimated lactate threshold, the 4th bout is a little faster, and the 5th bout is a little slower than 5k pace. After that I am going to do a 600m all out(around 80sec) to find max lactate values.

My question is how much time should I take between reps for recovery, and how much time after the last 2000m before I run the all out one? I've seen conflicting suggestions where some suggest 1 minute breaks, and the all out run should follow immediately after the 2000m w/ the 1min break, and other studies show 2min breaks with full recovery before the all out test. Any ideas?

The recovery only needs to be as long as it takes you to take your blood sample, as well as the time it takes for your meter to take the reading. It definitely helps to have someone else assist you with the testing. If you have to do it on your own it can be a big pain in the butt. You will have to make sure you don't sweat on your test strip and then you will have to wait for the results. If someone is assisting you, they can take the blood sample from your ear and then you can start your next repeat while your assistant waits for the test reading.

I don't believe it matters how long you rest. It could be very short, or it could be very long. If you could take blood samples while you run, you probably wouldn't need to stop. This is somewhat possible if you are using a treadmill. The reason you want your test runs to be at least 5 minutes is so that your lactate levels can stabilize at the increased pace. Even though you could take long recoveries in between, you probably shouldn't take them too long. You don't want to cool down too much.

I think it is important to make sure you are well hydrated and that your glycogen is topped off for these tests. Any decrease in blood plasma, or blood glucose will effect your test results and make it difficult to compare with future results. In an ideal world you would also have consistent weather conditions in between tests. Although treadmills are not as specific as running on a track, they may prove to be more reliable when conducting these tests. You can limit the effect the weather may have on your results, as well as ensure you are running at a consistent pace. Having a water bottle consistently available isn't too bad either.

balance-I was looking through some old threads and reading some of your posts, very interesting stuff. Anyways, I've been reading up on Jan Olbrecht's training for swimming and triathletes and such through reading a couple articles written by him, but was really interested in reading his book. But I've found no luck finding it anywhere. In some of your posts you mention his work frequently, so was wondering if you had any idea of where I can get a hold of it?

sorry for the hijacking of the thread.

sjm1368,

I had trouble finding the book when I ordered it. I do not believe it is still in print so it may be hard to track down. I just saw it for sale on one web site for $48. That seems a bit ridiculous to me. I believe I only paid about $25 for mine. It is only a small paper back with 282 pages. I know I have the web site that I ordered it from some where. You can type "the science of winning" into the search function of Google if you want to start a search. I will have to get back to you on that.

Something tells me the up and coming Kenyans and Ethiopians aren't asking the same questions on letsrunafrica.com

Brett Pierce wrote:

What is a good lactate testing protocol for a marathon or longer type runner?

What is the highest predicted amount of lactate one can deal with for 3 hrs, 6hrs, 12 hrs, 18 hrs?

You would not have much lactate build up in any of those time frames.

Also, lactate comes from glycogen and as you progress in those time frames you will produce less lactate since you have less substrate (glycogen) from which to make lactate.

As for a protocol, here is one at a place I used to work.

Figure current 10K race pace in m/min (1 mph = 26.8 m/min). That is the pace for stage 5 of the following protocol. Each stage is 3 minutes long (except for stage 1 which is 4 minutes).

Stage 1 10Kpace -40 m/min

Stage 2 10K pace -30 m/min

Stage 3 " -20 m/min

Stage 4 " -10 m/min

Stage 5 10K pace

Stage 6 " +10 m/min

Stage 7 +20

Stage 8 +30

3 minutes is long enough to reach a steady state and yet short enough for each stage that test is over in less than 30 minutes.

The early stages provide a baseline for LT determination. You need the baseline in order to pick the "deflection" point.

do you believe that this test could be run in 5 stages but each stage lasting 6 minutes instead of 8 minutes?

Who are you expecting a reply from? This thread was 17 years ago!!

Having said that, and relating to the thread about the Ingebrigtsens - which has been covered many times - I recall Gelindo Bordin (1988 OG Marathon champ) doing this kind of lactate testing (protocol was 5 x 2k, 45 sec rec) back 35 years ago. So it certainly isn't new.