I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
If you are slightly above average general fitness and don't work on this type of action specifically, but rather mix something like this in occasionally, then you should be able to do about 30% over your body weight without much issue for 10 reps, if you're a male. At 61, maybe I would expect a less.
Plate loaded or machine?
Lat pulldown or Hi Row?
Machines can vary by manufacturer. 205 on one machine could be 140 on another.
Also depends on how you executed the pull. Did you lean way back so that it becomes more of a row than a pulldown?
I do a hammer strength high row 3 sets of 5 @ 270.
Lat pulldown machine? I can't remember. Pretty close to the whole stack.
I do a barbell dead stop row at 225, setup like a deadlift bar hits ground each time.
Alan
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
That's impressive at face value. Curious: what's your height & weight? Are you powerlifting or bodybuilding or anything like that.
I only do 145 lbs @ 8-12 reps (up to 5 sets/close grip) at 60 yrs old. When I was competitively bodybuilding & powerlifting way back in the 80s, I was doing that kind of weight & reps. 10 yrs of competitive powerlifting & BB took its toll on me with injuries & some health problems. So at the recommendation of my doctor, I switched to running & triathlon and shed a bunch of bulk.
However, due to chronic injuries & post-traumatic OA, running had to be curtailed a couple of years ago and I went back to BB (non-competitive) & some cycling. I don't lift heavy anymore or try to show off - those days are over. It's all about lower weight & higher reps with great form - all to avoid injury. I'm into building a more aesthetic physique and keeping in good cardiovascular shape.
It's funny - a lot of the middle-aged guys on testosterone replacement therapy at my gym all lift super heavy with bad form as if they're back in their 20s. Many sustained injuries including one guy who last week tore his pectoral muscles doing some crazy insane weight on bench press. When will these T-monsters ever learn! Lol.
Don't do lat pull-downs if you're a runner. Running involves rotational movements and pulling down on a lat pull-down bar with two arms at the same time is not specific to running.
Biomechanics guy wrote:
Don't do lat pull-downs if you're a runner. Running involves rotational movements and pulling down on a lat pull-down bar with two arms at the same time is not specific to running.
So no athlete should do static movements because they aren't specific to their sport?
General strength has a purpose. As does specific strength.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
Biomechanics guy wrote:
Don't do lat pull-downs if you're a runner. Running involves rotational movements and pulling down on a lat pull-down bar with two arms at the same time is not specific to running.
So no athlete should do static movements because they aren't specific to their sport?
General strength has a purpose. As does specific strength.
Alan
Yes. Correct. When an athlete does general strength exercises, the body/muscles/fascia adapts to those movements. This, in turn, takes away from movements and actions needed for forward propulsion. A simple example is the deadlift. This exercise builds and trains muscle to pick up a weight with two hands and two feet planted on the ground. If done repeatedly, the body adapts to this movement. When a runner attempts to run, the body fights itself because the wrong muscles have been trained. This leads to injuries. Bench presses, deadlifts, squats, planks, and lat pull-downs are counter-productive to the running motion. Runners should concentrate on running and, if strength is needed (doubtful), rotational exercises with resistance bands using push/pull actions is recommended. It's basic biomechanics that every PT has been trained in.
Biomechanics guy wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
So no athlete should do static movements because they aren't specific to their sport?
General strength has a purpose. As does specific strength.
Alan
Yes. Correct. When an athlete does general strength exercises, the body/muscles/fascia adapts to those movements. This, in turn, takes away from movements and actions needed for forward propulsion. A simple example is the deadlift. This exercise builds and trains muscle to pick up a weight with two hands and two feet planted on the ground. If done repeatedly, the body adapts to this movement. When a runner attempts to run, the body fights itself because the wrong muscles have been trained. This leads to injuries. Bench presses, deadlifts, squats, planks, and lat pull-downs are counter-productive to the running motion. Runners should concentrate on running and, if strength is needed (doubtful), rotational exercises with resistance bands using push/pull actions is recommended. It's basic biomechanics that every PT has been trained in.
As someone who has actually trained hundreds of athletes and follows advice of those who have trained thousands and follows established guidelines that have trained millions imma say you are wrong.
I'm also going to admit there is nothing I can tell you or show you to convince you otherwise.
Have fun with your "functional" training.
Studies show heavy static resistance training improves performance and running economy.
Alan
Additionally....I'm all for more movement specific and sport focused movements designed to improve strength in that very select movement pattern.....after a foundation of general strength has been developed.
Your body doesn't just unlearn running, which you do for thousands of steps a day, by doing 10 heavy squat reps. Let's take your thought to the extreme.....runners shouldn't walk. Waking teaches an improper movement pattern and trains the muscles in an improper way.....
Alan
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
For you, 205 would make it 10 pull-ups. I would think that 10 pull-ups is good for someone who is 61. I wouldn't necessarily say that 10 pull-ups is good for someone in their 20s or 30s. At that age 10 pull-ups would be just okay, but for 61 it's probably pretty good.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Biomechanics guy wrote:
Yes. Correct. When an athlete does general strength exercises, the body/muscles/fascia adapts to those movements. This, in turn, takes away from movements and actions needed for forward propulsion. A simple example is the deadlift. This exercise builds and trains muscle to pick up a weight with two hands and two feet planted on the ground. If done repeatedly, the body adapts to this movement. When a runner attempts to run, the body fights itself because the wrong muscles have been trained. This leads to injuries. Bench presses, deadlifts, squats, planks, and lat pull-downs are counter-productive to the running motion. Runners should concentrate on running and, if strength is needed (doubtful), rotational exercises with resistance bands using push/pull actions is recommended. It's basic biomechanics that every PT has been trained in.
As someone who has actually trained hundreds of athletes and follows advice of those who have trained thousands and follows established guidelines that have trained millions imma say you are wrong.
I'm also going to admit there is nothing I can tell you or show you to convince you otherwise.
Have fun with your "functional" training.
Studies show heavy static resistance training improves performance and running economy.
Alan
Let me add that you might need to lift objects out of the trunk of your car, put heavy stuff onto or off of a shelf, move furniture, place and carry a child or grandchild on your shoulders.
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
Depends on whether you plan on competing for a gold medal in the marathon or whether you publicly announced that you would do the same. But regardless, 205 is a good number.
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
Meaningless numbers. Every machine is different, and the numbers on the plates are relative. The true measure is how many correct pullups or even chinups you are doing.
Flag Bearer wrote:
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
Meaningless numbers. Every machine is different, and the numbers on the plates are relative. The true measure is how many correct pullups or even chinups you are doing.
Pullups are one of the best exercises!
50 strict bodyweight, but only 10 with additional 47 lbs. I still have 7 years to get to 60, but I'm sure I'll still be capable of 50
Flag Bearer wrote:
Herman frivolity wrote:
I just did 10 reps at 205 and am 61.
Meaningless numbers. Every machine is different, and the numbers on the plates are relative. The true measure is how many correct pullups or even chinups you are doing.
I have lifted on many traditional lat pulldown machines and they are not all different. They are fairly consistent. To the other guy, I weigh 170 but will weigh 160 soon as I increase my mileage. These are very strict form. When I was younger I could do the whole stack - 275 pounds plus another 30 pounds. I doubt Allen did "almost the entire stack" if he doesn't even know how much the stack is.
OP B wrote:
Flag Bearer wrote:
Meaningless numbers. Every machine is different, and the numbers on the plates are relative. The true measure is how many correct pullups or even chinups you are doing.
I have lifted on many traditional lat pulldown machines and they are not all different. They are fairly consistent. To the other guy, I weigh 170 but will weigh 160 soon as I increase my mileage. These are very strict form. When I was younger I could do the whole stack - 275 pounds plus another 30 pounds. I doubt Allen did "almost the entire stack" if he doesn't even know how much the stack is.
Are the cables all exactly the same length? Are some cables frayed and some not? Is the seat height always exactly the same? Are the pulleys always lubricated exactly the same amount? Do the pulleys all have the same radius? Is the angle of attack always the same?
These and many other possible variables. True measure - pullups.
Flag Bearer wrote:
OP B wrote:
I have lifted on many traditional lat pulldown machines and they are not all different. They are fairly consistent. To the other guy, I weigh 170 but will weigh 160 soon as I increase my mileage. These are very strict form. When I was younger I could do the whole stack - 275 pounds plus another 30 pounds. I doubt Allen did "almost the entire stack" if he doesn't even know how much the stack is.
Are the cables all exactly the same length? Are some cables frayed and some not? Is the seat height always exactly the same? Are the pulleys always lubricated exactly the same amount? Do the pulleys all have the same radius? Is the angle of attack always the same?
These and many other possible variables. True measure - pullups.
I am not saying every lat pulldown machine is identical to the next but I have been lifting for 45 years and have probably worked out on a 100 different lat pulldown machines and 140 (warmup weight) seemed pretty similar on all.
10 body weight pull ups, wide grip, palms out. That's good for any age. I'd even say 6-8 is good. I also agree with the poster who said it can vary from machine to machine, but regardless of machine 205 sounds good to me.
I'm 250 lbs and can do like 5 strict pullups and more if I cheat. For lat pulls, I'll usually work between 120 and 180 lbs. I don't lean back much, I pull under control to my chest and hold it there a second. I see guys putting big weight on it and pulling it half way down by leaning way back and then jerk it down almost to their chest. I don't see the point. There's no lat pull contest. I get wanting to do the most weight you can for bench and some other things, but lat pull is not something to bother to keep track of how much weight you can do.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Biomechanics guy wrote:
Yes. Correct. When an athlete does general strength exercises, the body/muscles/fascia adapts to those movements. This, in turn, takes away from movements and actions needed for forward propulsion. A simple example is the deadlift. This exercise builds and trains muscle to pick up a weight with two hands and two feet planted on the ground. If done repeatedly, the body adapts to this movement. When a runner attempts to run, the body fights itself because the wrong muscles have been trained. This leads to injuries. Bench presses, deadlifts, squats, planks, and lat pull-downs are counter-productive to the running motion. Runners should concentrate on running and, if strength is needed (doubtful), rotational exercises with resistance bands using push/pull actions is recommended. It's basic biomechanics that every PT has been trained in.
As someone who has actually trained hundreds of athletes and follows advice of those who have trained thousands and follows established guidelines that have trained millions imma say you are wrong.
I'm also going to admit there is nothing I can tell you or show you to convince you otherwise.
Have fun with your "functional" training.
Studies show heavy static resistance training improves performance and running economy.
Alan
It's not me saying these things. It's the principles of biomechanics, kinesiology and tensegrity. The athletes you train are probably successful DESPITE using training methods that may not improve running. The talent is already there.
And, yes...walking, although a similar rotational movement, is not conducive to improving running performance.