One completely non-scientific thing that just doesn't add up for me with the Shelby Houlihan ban... the shoes.

If it ain’t broke...

One of many puzzlements in this case. Anyone who has jumped to conclusions is not being objective. I'm in "what-and-see" mode

Agreed. I don't really know what to think at this point. She could definitely still be cheating, that just stand out as extremely odd to me if she is.

This is weird for me too. Has she said she likes the spikes before? I.e. you’ve had brazier mention how he prefers feeling more of the track rather than the air pod or extra pebax foam. Maybe she’s the same?

It also could be another excuse in case she got caught like she just did. “I can’t be doping, I won’t even wear dragonflies!”. For all we know she was gonna slap on dragonflies at trials, though.

ShoesForThought wrote:

Completely setting aside the actual scientific evidence of the case, one thing really just doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone is giving Nike's new spikes all the blame (credit?) for many of the crazy fast times being run in the past year, but Shelby Houlihan doesn't even wear them. She races in an ancient pair of Nike Victorys.

Why would someone trying so hard to gain possible little advantage that they risk their entire career to take an illegal substance not use a 100% legal pair of spikes that allegedly give a substantial advantage?

What does her choice of shoes have to do with whether she is doping or not? Can you elaborate on whatever theory you are trying to express? Spell it out affirmatively, without using a rhetorical question. Like "Houlihan can't be doping, because her shoe choice shows that [insert speculation or analysis]."

It's because the shoes don't actually make you faster. If they help at all, it's that they help reduce the risk of injury.

Look at the OTQ cutoffs for this olympic trials and then each of them in the past. The cutoffs are almost always faster, usually quite a bit faster. Never have the cutoffs been slower two cycles down the road. Someone else posted cutoffs from 2004 to 2012 and then to 2021. The times this cycle aren't outrageous compared to the past times. If you look at other events, they are getting faster too. The 100 meters cutoff in 2004 was 10.26 to make the trials, then 10.21 in 2012, and now in 2021 it's 10.12... The sprinter shoes haven't changed at all. People are just getting faster.

I don't think the 'flies make more than a second or two difference in the 1500, but in the 5000, it's a no-brainer they would be faster and more comfortable, yet she stuck with victories (with Karissa right on her heels in DF's)

I saw her work out in Sedona and Scottsdale in January and April, both in Hyperfly's and Dragonfly's. I assume she was working to feel comfortable in them.

Do you believe that Caster Semenya ever ran all out and ran the fastest 800m she was capable of running?

She didn't. Why not? Because it already looked bad how much she was dominating, it would not have helped her to smash the record by Jamilia, who everyone thinks was a massive drug cheat. She did enough to win and tried to avoid what eventually happened anyway, being banned from the 800.

Shelby's times were already raising eyebrows. She set the American record, how much faster at that time, with Covid etc. did she need to run for her career? How much more of of a drop in time would have made even more people wonder if she was doping?

What would have been interesting was her choice of footwear in the Olympic finals.

It's simple. Her times would be too fast with both the shoes and the burritos -- it would be a dead give away that something unnatural is up. I predict BTC athletes are either given the choice to wear the shoes or eat burritos, but not both. The increase in time would be too suspicious.

ShoesForThought wrote:

Completely setting aside the actual scientific evidence of the case, one thing really just doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone is giving Nike's new spikes all the blame (credit?) for many of the crazy fast times being run in the past year, but Shelby Houlihan doesn't even wear them. She races in an ancient pair of Nike Victorys.

Why would someone trying so hard to gain possible little advantage that they risk their entire career to take an illegal substance not use a 100% legal pair of spikes that allegedly give a substantial advantage?

Don't pros have custom spikes made to their own specifications and biomecanics? Maybe the spikes looked like Victorys but had a carbon plate in the midsole?

ShoesForThought wrote:

Completely setting aside the actual scientific evidence of the case, one thing really just doesn't make any sense to me.

The suspicious improvement of S.H. was between 2017 and 2018, before the superspikes arrived. (4:03/06 ->3:57/58, 15:00-14:34, "also ran" at international meets -> beating the world's best in deadly sprint finishes)

I believe even in 2019 the spiked were not yet such a factor as in 2020.

og vics, og lunaracers = suoer shoes

Shelby ran 14:23 when the world record was 14:11...in the old spikes

With dragonflies she runs probably 14:18-20.

She’s primarily a 1500 runner.

Can you imagine Matt Centrowitz or Craig Engels popping a 12:43 and people not saying, ok there’s no way in a million years these guys aren’t doping?

That’s what I thought

If she had run in the spikes previously, should could have blamed some of the improvement doubt on the spikes and not the burrito.

The scientist who doped the Russians from the Icarus documentary said he warned other coaches and officials that their source of roids from China may be contaminated at the micro level. So that answers the main posters question. And if others were taking those same ‘meds’ in the BTC group they would likely lay low, not race or finish races to be tested and keep testing themselves all the way up to the trials too see if it’s cleared their own system. Hmmm who just announced pulling out of trials via weird video as if reluctantly, randomly retiring....

Wejo and rojo do your damn homework and stop being biased apologists for your shady friends.

Maybe it's overcompensating to cover up being a drug cheat. Don't they act the most holier than thou? Like she's super aware of the perception of it because she's imagined the very real possibility of having an asterisk by her name.

I think I'll stop speculating though. I would feel so bad if she's truly innocent and just got a lardful of roids.

4L wrote:

Shelby ran 14:23 when the world record was 14:11...in the old spikes

With dragonflies she runs probably 14:18-20.

She’s primarily a 1500 runner.

Can you imagine Matt Centrowitz or Craig Engels popping a 12:43 and people not saying, ok there’s no way in a million years these guys aren’t doping?

That’s what I thought

The problem with comparing women’s current WR times to past times and current PBs to WRs is that the women’s curve is way behind the men’s — the majority of women in the world haven’t been allowed, and certainly haven’t been pushed, to compete in athletics or anything of the sort.

So there’s a chance that the crazy WR times we are seeing from women aren’t actually that crazy and are the result of women from a broader ranger of places being allowed to train.

Comparing shelbys 14:23 to 14:11 and a theoretical Centro 12:43 to 12:37 has no bearing on whether she cheated or not.

I for one doubt she cheated but also don’t buy the burrito story — I don’t think they even believe the burrito story themselves.

But just as someone else stated, if you are convinced one way or the other, you’re jumping to conclusions.

Maybe she thought the ‘roids plus super spikes would give her too much of a blatant advantage?