Cole Hocker: A key to my success was that I barely ran in HS (30 mpw)

Socrates wrote:

I like the lower mileage in high school but you need lots of talent to get away with 30 mpw, I like closer to 45-50 max in HS to stay healthy and leave room in college

1) Your comment about getting away with 30 MPW in high school (the assumption being we're talking about a national-caliber runner) is correct.

2) Your comment that you need to stay 45-50 max in HS to stay healthy and leave room for college is bunk. Even non-Power 5 schools commonly have their distance guys running over 100 MPW, and some of them much more. 45 MPW is what a high school kid who aspires to be good should be running the summer before their freshman year, UNLESS they are injured or sick or have a history of getting injured in middle school/junior high school. When you are going to do 100-130 MPW all summer in college, getting up to 70 MPW for most high school runners before their senior year is not too much.

come on flagpole, you're better than that.

he didn't say needs to. he said he likes closer to 45 - 50.

so tired of seeing people twisting other people's words around.

surprised to see it come from a relatively smart guy like you.

I can’t believe we’re having this low mileage debate again— we already did this guys, it was called 1990 to 2004 and we (the USA) sucked! Both in depth and top end, from HS to pros. There were Olympic years we struggled to field 3 men per event because no one had the time qualifier!

And 30mpw in HS is NOT a promise of future success for studs. I coach HS in CA and ~2002 we had two consecutive *state champs* in the mile run under 4:10 off 30mpw (Phil Reid and Matt Jonsrud). They both went to Cal Poly under Mark Conover and never did much. By this Hocker theory they should have been NCAA stars, right?

Success off low mileage is rare, is reserved for mega talents only, and is not something to emulate.

Oh christ not the old 90s low mileage argument again.

Reading this thread, i have rarely seen so many wrong statements about training. I am a little bit shocked to be honest.

It took Paula Radcliff 15 years to hammer down the World record of 2:15:25 for the

Marathon.

The word 'Running Economy', ever heared about that? She improved that year after year.

And more here ...

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Physiology-of-the-World-Record-Holder-for-the-Jones/925092caeba7349449504d9ce878c5ad5115c3f5

I’m fairness not many do anything under Conover in several years

SLOer wrote:

I’m fairness not many do anything under Conover in several years

True. Our league has sent 3 to him and all had a bad time. It’s a pity as that location should be great for training.

I'm sure that he is running a lot more than 30 mpw now.

sacto rush wrote:

SLOer wrote:

I’m fairness not many do anything under Conover in several years

True. Our league has sent 3 to him and all had a bad time. It’s a pity as that location should be great for training.

They have terrible/no coaching there. If you get the chance don’t send anyone that wants to run to them.

His 800 is he’s what got him the ride to the incredible Oregon program 30 mpw is plenty for the 8. If it wasn’t for the 8 he would gone to say an Indiana State and he would probably be decent but not this good.

Trucker Hats wrote:

His 800 is what got him the ride to the incredible Oregon program. 30 mpw is plenty for the 8. If it wasn’t for the 8 he would have gone to say an Indiana State. Where he would probably be decent but not this good.

Let me try again

Data Guy wrote:

You don't like evidence. There is a roughly 90% correlation between lower mileage and higher ceiling. Check the top 20 American runners and what they were doing in high school. Then compare it to the runners who were better than them in high school that are now far behind them.

That isn't evidence. Nobody doubts low mileage runners who are running similar times to the high mileage ones are more talented and will run faster later. What that doesn't tell us is if running more early limits future potential.

Ritz ran 2x the miles of Kennedy in HS. He still ran faster as a pro. Maybe he would have been a 1245 guy if he ran less in HS, but I doubt it. How many low mileage US HS runners have run faster marathons than hall and his 100mpw at 17? How come none of them are reaching higher peaks? Where are all the low mileage people running faster than Rupp and his 70mpw? Who is faster than Solinsky and his 80-90mpw?

Maybe they all lowered their potential by training hard in HS but nobody has every come up with any evidence of that. Feel free to post any. I expect to be waiting a long time.

NXN champs don't get into Oregon? Why would a top notch college program not want the best XC runner in the country?

Great comment - My son is a 1:54/4:11 HS Junior who wants to live for the moment by trying to win a state championship next year. Yes he’s looking forward to running in college but he has zero desire to run professionally or try to make the Olympic trials thereafter. At 23 years old he will be focused on his career and will probably be more interested in breaking 80 on the golf course than running 80 miles a week, and at 27 he’s hopefully running weekend 5k’s in 18:00 while pushing a jogging stroller. Not everyone at 17 years old is focused to prepare to be a 2:09 marathoner at 28. Some kids (even ultra elite athletes) realize it’s time to get on with life after High School or College.

migroc wrote:

Hopefully the college coach works with that. I had a very talented girl who ran 30 mpw, never injured, went to college, ran high mileage immediately and was injured to the point of back surgery.

Ugh she should sue the coach for malpractice

Wealthburg wrote:

come on flagpole, you're better than that.

he didn't say needs to. he said he likes closer to 45 - 50.

so tired of seeing people twisting other people's words around.

surprised to see it come from a relatively smart guy like you.

Hmm...I will say that on this point, I concur. He did say "likes" and not "needs". Your criticism of me here is fair.

Socrates, my criticism of you was unwarranted. To you, I apologize unreservedly.

Except that he is a year older, testosterone is a wonderful thing.