Non-binary athletes (legit question)

They need their own league.

Nowadays, the Dr asks if the parents want to assign a gender to the baby. Parents are like, we'll let this individual decide when the time is right.

Maybe a M to F and F to M standards are in order. Like a handicap.

burnerPhone6 wrote:

They need their own league.

Nowadays, the Dr asks if the parents want to assign a gender to the baby. Parents are like, we'll let this individual decide when the time is right.

Maybe a M to F and F to M standards are in order. Like a handicap.

Legit question, not trying to offend anyone here. If kids assigned their own gender, why can't they assign their species as well? If gender has no basis in biology, and is purely a manifestation of how they feel and what they want others to refer to them as, then why can't someone identify as fox or hippo? The taxonomic categories we place animals into are social constructs after all, and do not exist in nature.

For the same reason that age groups correspond to your birthrate rather than to your appearance or age that you identify as.

Separate category, maybe. But then what’s a non-binary qualifying time and how do you make it “fair” or equivalent?

For BQ, iM18-34 is 3:00:00, W18-34 is 3:30:00

Picking 1500 meters at random, Olympic standard is men 3:34 and women 4:04.2.

How does one possibly determine what an appropriate non-binary qualifying time should be for those? Split the difference between the existing men and women standards? That would just guarantee that basically only non-binary athletes who were “assigned male at birth” qualify.

Paradoxical wrote:

burnerPhone6 wrote:

They need their own league.

Nowadays, the Dr asks if the parents want to assign a gender to the baby. Parents are like, we'll let this individual decide when the time is right.

Maybe a M to F and F to M standards are in order. Like a handicap.

Legit question, not trying to offend anyone here. If kids assigned their own gender, why can't they assign their species as well? If gender has no basis in biology, and is purely a manifestation of how they feel and what they want others to refer to them as, then why can't someone identify as fox or hippo? The taxonomic categories we place animals into are social constructs after all, and do not exist in nature.

Yeah! I always wanted to enter a cockfight tourney, and beat up some chickens. This could be the ticket.

Paradoxical wrote:

Legit question, not trying to offend anyone here. If kids assigned their own gender, why can't they assign their species as well? If gender has no basis in biology, and is purely a manifestation of how they feel and what they want others to refer to them as, then why can't someone identify as fox or hippo? The taxonomic categories we place animals into are social constructs after all, and do not exist in nature.

Do you not think how a person feels has a basis in biology?

No.

If education is the goal, you must be open to taking questions wrote:

Legitimate, genuine, non-trolling question:

Why would a non-binary athlete compete in the category corresponding to the sex the athlete was “assigned at birth”? (I am deliberately not mentioning any current examples by name, so as to reduce risk of inflaming anyone).

I don't know any athletes who are non-binary.

If you're getting confused with 'transgender' then perhaps this discussion isn't for you right now.

Alright. All of this is in reference to Nikki Hiltz, who is non-binary.

https://www.womensrunning.com/culture/people/nikki-hiltz-comes-out-transgender/

If we as a society are going to take transgender athletes in sports seriously, then Nikki Hiltz should not be allowed to compete in the women’s category because Nikki Hiltz is not a woman. If you’re saying Nikki Hiltz should still run with the women, it’s because you’re saying “look, we know Nikki Hiltz is actually really a woman and we’re just humoring Nikki Hiltz by referring to her as they and non-binary”.

You can’t have it both ways.

If education is the goal, you must be open to taking questions wrote:

Alright. All of this is in reference to Nikki Hiltz, who is non-binary.

https://www.womensrunning.com/culture/people/nikki-hiltz-comes-out-transgender/

If we as a society are going to take transgender athletes in sports seriously, then Nikki Hiltz should not be allowed to compete in the women’s category because Nikki Hiltz is not a woman. If you’re saying Nikki Hiltz should still run with the women, it’s because you’re saying “look, we know Nikki Hiltz is actually really a woman and we’re just humoring Nikki Hiltz by referring to her as they and non-binary”.

You can’t have it both ways.

Also transgender. That's your issue.

Don't worry your little head about the 'non binary' thing.

How many non-binary athletes do you think post on this board?

If education is the goal, you must be open to taking questions wrote:

Alright. All of this is in reference to Nikki Hiltz, who is non-binary.

https://www.womensrunning.com/culture/people/nikki-hiltz-comes-out-transgender/

If we as a society are going to take transgender athletes in sports seriously, then Nikki Hiltz should not be allowed to compete in the women’s category because Nikki Hiltz is not a woman. If you’re saying Nikki Hiltz should still run with the women, it’s because you’re saying “look, we know Nikki Hiltz is actually really a woman and we’re just humoring Nikki Hiltz by referring to her as they and non-binary”.

You can’t have it both ways.

Hiltz feels they is a woman on any racing day. They feels male only on non-racing day.

Joking aside, if Hiltz has not chemically altered their body, they should be allowed to compete in the women's races.

wtfunny wrote:

Paradoxical wrote:

Legit question, not trying to offend anyone here. If kids assigned their own gender, why can't they assign their species as well? If gender has no basis in biology, and is purely a manifestation of how they feel and what they want others to refer to them as, then why can't someone identify as fox or hippo? The taxonomic categories we place animals into are social constructs after all, and do not exist in nature.

Do you not think how a person feels has a basis in biology?

So if a person feels like an animal they are biologically that animal?

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Hiltz feels they is a woman on any racing day. They feels male only on non-racing day.

Joking aside, if Hiltz has not chemically altered their body, they should be allowed to compete in the women's races.

It's as simple as that.

What category you compete in is all about physiology, not about what you put on your instagram.

Paradoxical wrote:

The taxonomic categories we place animals into are social constructs after all, and do not exist in nature.

As biologically muddy as the species concept is among scientists, taxonomic categories are not social constructs, and have nothing to do with this topic.

trollism wrote:

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Hiltz feels they is a woman on any racing day. They feels male only on non-racing day.

Joking aside, if Hiltz has not chemically altered their body, they should be allowed to compete in the women's races.

It's as simple as that.

What category you compete in is all about physiology, not about what you put on your instagram.

Of course any reasonable person would agree -- the problem is that Nikki Hiltz herself has said that transgender men should be allowed to compete in the women's division. The inconsistencies show how flawed their argument is (in terms of professional sports ONLY. I have absolutely no problem with it in any other scenario, it's none of anyone else's business how someone identifies or feels).

If she identifies as a man sometimes, by her logic (which says that men identifying as women compete as women), she should have to compete in the men's division at those times. Of course that's unrealistic.

The intersex issue is insanely more muddled -- I go back and forth on that one.

lonesome moon wrote:

trollism wrote:

It's as simple as that.

What category you compete in is all about physiology, not about what you put on your instagram.

Of course any reasonable person would agree -- the problem is that Nikki Hiltz herself has said that transgender men should be allowed to compete in the women's division. The inconsistencies show how flawed their argument is (in terms of professional sports ONLY. I have absolutely no problem with it in any other scenario, it's none of anyone else's business how someone identifies or feels).

If she identifies as a man sometimes, by her logic (which says that men identifying as women compete as women), she should have to compete in the men's division at those times. Of course that's unrealistic.

The intersex issue is insanely more muddled -- I go back and forth on that one.

She really said transgender men should be allowed to compete in the women’s division? That makes no sense.

GOD made people the way they are. No amount of human intervention can change how you were born. PERIOD

Just look at what happened when Adam and Eve defied GOD

burnerPhone6 wrote:

They need their own league. .

No, they need to grow up and accept reality.