Typical 800 question

bigmig19 wrote:

2 THE GILLS!! wrote:

It sounds like she needs focus on 800m specific workouts. 65 is plenty of speed to break 2:30 though it needs to be improved to continue improving going forward. Sub 19 5k is also plenty of endurance for running under 2:30. Most of the girls that I know that ran in the low 20s could run under 2:30.

Combinations of 600s, 500s, 400s, 300s and 200s

600s in under 1:50

500s in 88-90

400s in 70-73

300s in 53-54

200s in 35-36

Running sets of 600+200, 500+300, 400+400, 300+300+200, 4x200 etc. can be very effective. Short rest (30-60 sec) during the set and then long rest after a set (5-10 mins). For HS kids, 2 sets is usually plenty. (NOTE: 400+400 is the hardest of these sets)

I also like doing 1 or 2 long reps, followed by 5-6 200s.

1x600 + 6x200 (5-10 mins, 2 min)

or

2x400 + 5x200 (4-8 min, 2 min)

Another good one is 3-4x400m (4-8 mins)

And when you say 600+ 200 you mean 600 on, 200 jog ...500 on 300 jog...?

V wrote:

I like the reply from 2 The Gills. The 800m is a very specific event and relies a lot on buffering capacity which needs you to encounter a good amount of acidity in the body to learn how to tolerate it when races hit.

The 65 should mean she has enough speed, I wouldn't put her in the low-2:20's with it, but 2:25-30 is about the right ballpark.

Depending on how much season is left will paint most of the picture for her training. We're nearing the end for most athletes so by this point speed and endurance are usually developed as much as they reasonably can be. Both of those areas take a long time to bear fruit so throwing in something new to try and add something to it probably needs to wait until the next season.

Most of our late season work looks like 800m or 400m specific training. Generally using sets that have volumes around the race distance and short rest, or by using just a few big reps that we're trying to get to feel like a race.

4x500m with 8-12 minutes rest at 90-91

2 sets (300m + 200m) w/ 60s rest (full between sets) at goal 400m pace

2 sets 4x200m at 36 w/ 30s rest (full rest between sets)

These types of workouts can be pretty hard on athletes so it's not uncommon for us to alternate them with an easier tempo day just to keep in touch with endurance and let athletes recover.

bigmig19 wrote:

V wrote:

I like the reply from 2 The Gills. The 800m is a very specific event and relies a lot on buffering capacity which needs you to encounter a good amount of acidity in the body to learn how to tolerate it when races hit.

The 65 should mean she has enough speed, I wouldn't put her in the low-2:20's with it, but 2:25-30 is about the right ballpark.

Depending on how much season is left will paint most of the picture for her training. We're nearing the end for most athletes so by this point speed and endurance are usually developed as much as they reasonably can be. Both of those areas take a long time to bear fruit so throwing in something new to try and add something to it probably needs to wait until the next season.

Most of our late season work looks like 800m or 400m specific training. Generally using sets that have volumes around the race distance and short rest, or by using just a few big reps that we're trying to get to feel like a race.

4x500m with 8-12 minutes rest at 90-91

2 sets (300m + 200m) w/ 60s rest (full between sets) at goal 400m pace

2 sets 4x200m at 36 w/ 30s rest (full rest between sets)

These types of workouts can be pretty hard on athletes so it's not uncommon for us to alternate them with an easier tempo day just to keep in touch with endurance and let athletes recover.

1) Hmm, do you think the (400pr x 2) +10 sec rule is far too optimistic? I have seen a few versions of this.

BTW, we are USATF calendar so we have 8 more weeks to train!

2) Why so much rest on your 4 x 500s (8min?)? Thats complete recovery, so not intervals by any means. The other 2 examples you gave seem roughly 1:1 recovery, so more like intervals?

Thanks

V wrote:

bigmig19 wrote:

1) Hmm, do you think the (400pr x 2) +10 sec rule is far too optimistic? I have seen a few versions of this.

BTW, we are USATF calendar so we have 8 more weeks to train!

2) Why so much rest on your 4 x 500s (8min?)? Thats complete recovery, so not intervals by any means. The other 2 examples you gave seem roughly 1:1 recovery, so more like intervals?

Thanks

1) It's not a terrible approximation, but I don't think it can be applied well in both directions (converting 400m to 800m AND converting 800m to 400m) so I'm a little wary of using it . Most of my girls that ran 2:20 were running 62, but if I took a long sprinter who runs 60 she might be very lucky to break 2:30.

2) "intervals" just means a workout with rest. If you want to take the USTFCCCA definitions down then the workout I gave is repetition running. I'd give that much rest because 500m is a fairly long way to be running faster than her current race pace. 62.5% of her race distance done 4 times and at 2:25 pace isn't a walk in the park for most. If she gets through the first two reps still feeling great then I'd say "let's go faster" well before I'd take away recovery. The set after that workout could be 2x600m at 1:48 with 15-20 minute rest. Again, you'd be getting 75% of her full race distance twice at a pace below her PR

The other workout mentioned 600m+200m is what we call "split 8's" that's definitely an even bigger step forward. We'll use it for more developed athletes, but only if we've seen some of the longer reps at race pace go well earlier in the season.

V wrote:

bigmig19 wrote:

1) Hmm, do you think the (400pr x 2) +10 sec rule is far too optimistic? I have seen a few versions of this.

BTW, we are USATF calendar so we have 8 more weeks to train!

2) Why so much rest on your 4 x 500s (8min?)? Thats complete recovery, so not intervals by any means. The other 2 examples you gave seem roughly 1:1 recovery, so more like intervals?

Thanks

1) It's not a terrible approximation, but I don't think it can be applied well in both directions (converting 400m to 800m AND converting 800m to 400m) so I'm a little wary of using it . Most of my girls that ran 2:20 were running 62, but if I took a long sprinter who runs 60 she might be very lucky to break 2:30.

2) "intervals" just means a workout with rest. If you want to take the USTFCCCA definitions down then the workout I gave is repetition running. I'd give that much rest because 500m is a fairly long way to be running faster than her current race pace. 62.5% of her race distance done 4 times and at 2:25 pace isn't a walk in the park for most. If she gets through the first two reps still feeling great then I'd say "let's go faster" well before I'd take away recovery. The set after that workout could be 2x600m at 1:48 with 15-20 minute rest. Again, you'd be getting 75% of her full race distance twice at a pace below her PR

The other workout mentioned 600m+200m is what we call "split 8's" that's definitely an even bigger step forward. We'll use it for more developed athletes, but only if we've seen some of the longer reps at race pace go well earlier in the season.