Advice for a Sub 2h30?

That's pretty fast running considering your training, so there's certainly room to keep improving, in pretty much all areas. You don't need to start training like a professional; just step it up a notch. Increase mileage to 65 or even 70 for a ten week stretch prior to your marathon. Do at least one structured workout per week. Do some of your long runs in the last 6 weeks as very hard progression runs. Go out and run a PR. Then try stepping it up one more notch for the next race.

Incidentally, what's your 5k PR? That's a pretty good indicator of marathon potential, even if it takes years of high mileage to reach that potential.

For what it's worth, the gap between 2:40 and 2:30 for me was huge, and it took very high mileage to get under 2:30. But you may have more ability than me, so it may come easier. Just remember that as you get faster, it gets much, much harder to knock off significant time from your PRs.

WOW you ran sub 2h30? At what age?

Thanks man! It's been a long time I ran a 5k but a few months ago I ran a 10K in 33:56 and had a feeling there was some more left in the tank. I know I'm not the fastest runner for short distances but my strength is maintaining a certain pace for a long time (endurance). I will up my mileage as you say, thanks.

Would losing some weight make me faster/better in the marathon?

You seem to have quite a bit of talent. If your other 15% of training was not all at sub 6, then I imagine you can go sub 2:30 by simply training a little faster and increasing percentage of faster miles to about 20%. You probably don’t even need to increase mileage. If your other 15% of training was well under 6, then you can likely still go under 2:30 with increased mileage and doing a little higher percentage of faster miles.

dantestruyve wrote:

Would losing some weight make me faster/better in the marathon?

I don't know if losing weight would help make you faster. But here's a scientific study that might help you answer that question for yourself.

"In marathon runners, Marc et al [8] identified the most appropriate profiles and conditions to realize optimal performance. They found, at this time, that optimal BMI for men was 19.8 kg.m−2, and for the 10 best performers of all time a BMI range between 17.5 and 20.7 kg.m−2"

you've made pretty incredible progress within the last few years. I was 5'11" and 156 lbs. at my peak marathon fitness. Your probably a little heavy but I would suggest you focus on eating healthy vs. cutting calories. I ran 6 marathons in college between 2:33 and 2:46. I was actually a little faster at the half marathon 1:10 high and 25K with a 1:25 PR - these times indicated 2:26 / 2:27 talent but I never got there due to pacing poorly and essentially zero hydration/nutrition during the race - this was back in the day when coca-cola and water were your options.

Even though you are making great progress I do think you need to incorporate some running that is significantly faster than race pace to improve your efficiency at speed. Repeat 1000M or miles X 5 or 6 at the right pace would make running 6 minute pace easier. Just from reading through your progression you probably already do faster long runs. Since you aren't doing speed now I'd suggest you add that and demonstrate you can handle it before suggesting you increase mileage. If you can handle a weekly VO2 max workout like this than by all means take your mileage to 70 or 75

I don't have to look at the specifics of your training. The answer is almost always 'run more' to be better at the marathon. Your 55 miles and 70 mile peak is still very low to be great at the marathon. Getting that up to some consistent 70-80 mile weeks with peak of 90-100 would be huge.

Great, thank you for your opinions. I'm really happy to read that I am maybe capable to reach my ultimate goal of sub 2h30. I will try to up my mileage to 70mpw with a peak of 90 and add one Vo2max workout a week. Thanks again, good luck :)

I would advice you to change training by feel to individual best paces up to your present shape.

I would advice you to ignore Jan Stensson.

Your biggest improvements will come from running more weekly mileage and long run specific workouts. Adding in a 10k or 1/2 thin specific workout will help too.

Ideas:

Run more weekly mileage, run 2x per day, 70-80mpw, or if you want to challenge yourself 80-90mpw

3 week cycle: 60, 70, 80 (then repeat 60, 70, 80)

(Or 70, 80, 90)

Workouts: 6xmile @ 10k effort with 90 second rest, 3x10 min @ 10k effort with 5 min rest, 60 min of 3min @ 1/2 thon 3 min easy reps.

Long run workouts: 2 hour 30 min easy, 2 hour progression run(60 min easy, 60 min goal pace), 90 min goal pace

some ideas wrote:

Your biggest improvements will come from running more weekly mileage and long run specific workouts. Adding in a 10k or 1/2 thin specific workout will help too.

Ideas:

Run more weekly mileage, run 2x per day, 70-80mpw, or if you want to challenge yourself 80-90mpw

3 week cycle: 60, 70, 80 (then repeat 60, 70, 80)

(Or 70, 80, 90)

Workouts: 6xmile @ 10k effort with 90 second rest, 3x10 min @ 10k effort with 5 min rest, 60 min of 3min @ 1/2 thon 3 min easy reps.

Long run workouts: 2 hour 30 min easy, 2 hour progression run(60 min easy, 60 min goal pace), 90 min goal pace

Thank you! I will try to do that. However I feel like if i'm getting too tired I don't have the discipline to do many miles. But I'll push trough it and give it a chance, maybe my body get used to it.

I wouldn't get caught up with forcing the mileage. I think it's certainly a good idea to increase your mileage but doing it too quickly could very well result in injuries. I ran 2:29 averaging about 55 miles/week. For me 55-65 miles/week is the sweet spot, where I can run a good marathon but still have enough time and energy for work and family.

My staples were:

6-7 mile tempos

6-10x 1km reps (usually about 90-120s jog recovery)

Mona fartlek type sessions

Progression long run

Each week usually had 1x tempo, 1x fartlek or intervals and a long run.

It might be worthwhile trying a training plan (e.g. Pfitz and Douglas).

Maybe you won't get there by Sept but if you're consistent over the next year or so I reckon you'll do it.

dantestruyve wrote:

Great, thank you for your opinions. I'm really happy to read that I am maybe capable to reach my ultimate goal of sub 2h30. I will try to up my mileage to 70mpw with a peak of 90 and add one Vo2max workout a week. Thanks again, good luck :)

Lots of good advice in this thread, but I don't think anyone is saying to add V02 max workouts.

They are recommending some faster work. Most aren't saying specific paces, but reading between the lines I think they would mostly recommend 1k and 1mile repeats around 10k to half marathon pace.

I think some workouts like that could be good, but don't get greedy and make too many changes.

I'm curious, what specifically changed between your 2:53 and your 2:39? My gut would say to make about the same amount of changes to your next cycle.

keepgoing wrote:

dantestruyve wrote:

Great, thank you for your opinions. I'm really happy to read that I am maybe capable to reach my ultimate goal of sub 2h30. I will try to up my mileage to 70mpw with a peak of 90 and add one Vo2max workout a week. Thanks again, good luck :)

Lots of good advice in this thread, but I don't think anyone is saying to add V02 max workouts.

They are recommending some faster work. Most aren't saying specific paces, but reading between the lines I think they would mostly recommend 1k and 1mile repeats around 10k to half marathon pace.

I think some workouts like that could be good, but don't get greedy and make too many changes.

I'm curious, what specifically changed between your 2:53 and your 2:39? My gut would say to make about the same amount of changes to your next cycle.

In fact and 100% honest, not quite much... I just ran consistent over the past 3 years. Maybe a little bit more miles per week but not that many. I think maybe 5-10mpw more. I'm convinced the progress was due to consistent running. But I doubt I get under 2h30 with staying consistent. That's why I will follow the advice of this threat and maybe i'll run my ultimate dreamtime before I get 30 yo (in three years).

Definitely keep doing what you've been doing, then. More or less. You're 27. You're on a great trajectory. You've got many years left of solid running in you. I'd say let the mileage and faster stuff come to you naturally.

One of my favorite runners to follow has a somewhat similar background to you, and is only a couple years old. He's run a handful of 2:30's and has gone under 2:30 just this spring. His training is ridiculously simple. He basically runs 60 to 90 minutes a day at easy paces. Most weeks (but not every week) he gets a long 2+ hour run in. Some weeks (but not even close to every week) he does something faster (usually around 10k paces). I really followed his last marathon training very closely and in the 18 week lead up he did 5 faster workouts and then 4 of his long runs included 4-11 miles of marathon pace work. More of the faster stuff came in the latter 8 weeks, but still, it only averages to one quality session every 2 weeks. And he is continuing to get faster off this training.

Just wear the spring shoes. You pretty much do not need to train.