Can’t legally consent to sex in most states, but can consent to have their sex changed.
If you don’t think this makes sense you are a phobe.
Can’t legally consent to sex in most states, but can consent to have their sex changed.
If you don’t think this makes sense you are a phobe.
They should be allowed to get tattoos. Happy now?
Or neither. They are children. They have the rest of their lives to make these decisions.
As part of the next stage, hormones - such as testosterone and estrogen - will be prescribed when the child, in most countries, reaches 16 or 18.
Gender reassignment surgery is widely restricted to adults over the age of 18.
If a doctor cuts off a child's genitals, that doctor should go to jail. Not just be banned from practicing, but go to prison for a long time.
does this make sense wrote:
Can’t legally consent to sex in most states, but can consent to have their sex changed.
You'd clearly prefer it were the opposite.
That Reuters article is a bit misleading.
Kids in North America, the UK & Europe who are confused & distressed by the gender expectations associated with their sex are being put on puberty blocking medication early in puberty. If left alone, the overwhelming majority of these young people would outgrow their "gender dysphoria" & grow up to be gay, lesbian, bi or nonconformist het adults.
The standard protocol is to commence blockers on gender confused kids at Tanner Stage 2. In girls Tanner Stage 2 usually begins between 9 & 11, in boys when they're 11.
In a federally-funded research project that started in 2016, the age for kids distressed about their sex to start puberty blockers was lowered to 8 and the age to start cross-sex hormones was dropped to 11.
Regarding age, the minimum age in the inclusion criteria for the gender-affirming hormone cohort was decreased from 13 years (as stated in the original grant proposal) to 8 years...
youth enrolled in the blocker cohort across all study sites (n=90) demonstrate that the age of participants ranges from 8 to 16 years at enrollment, with a mean age of 11.
Participants in the gender-affirming hormone [estradiol for males, testosterone for females] cohort range in age from 11 to 20 years at enrollment, with a mean age of 16.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6647755/
Cross-sex hormones are now increasingly being administered early in the teens - not later as the Reuters article suggests. For example, Jazz Jennings was put on puberty blockers at 10-11, and on estrogen at 12, and that was eight years ago. Unfortunately, as the story of Jazz shows, giving kids puberty blockers then cross-sex hormones can have many negative results: sterility, lack of libido, inability to orgasm, being out of step & left behind by your peers who've all gone through puberty, and a very limited dating pool.
One reason the cross-sex hormones are being pushed early is to negate the deleterious effects that the puberty blockers have on bone density. Another reason is that using powerful drugs to block children's normal development often isn't good for their mental wellbeing.
The Dutch researchers who came up with the idea of using puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones in the first place found that the impact on mental health wasn't all that positive: the drugs did not reduce depression or anxiety or lead to improved body image. The NHS GIDS has reported that using "the Dutch protocol" did not improve young persons' mental health or reduce their gender dysphoria. In fact, GIDS found that in females, puberty blockers led to an increase in thoughts and desires of self-harm.
Recently, the clinicians who came up with the "Dutch protocol" have publicly expressed dismay that an experimental drug regimen they tried out on a small number of patients in the Netherlands starting 15-20 years ago has been adopted by HCPs throughout the West & is being applied to vast swathes of kids of entirely different cultures & characteristics - & that outside the Netherlands no research is being done to determine whether this is appropriate & what the long-term effects are.
Gender reassignment surgery is widely restricted to adults over the age of 18.
The "widely" in that sentence is doing a whole lot of work. Moreover, though most people assume that "gender reassignment surgery" means genital surgery, this is not the case.
By far the largest group of minors jumping on the trans train today are female. Girls who "identify as" boys - or increasingly as "non-binary" or other of the many new "genders" such as agender and vapogender - now make up 66-75% of minors seeking medical treatment for distress over their sex. As a result, the single most common "gender confirmation surgery" being done worldwide by far now is double mastectomy, which is euphemistically called "top surgery."
In the US & Canada, double mastectomies are being done on girls as young as 13. And the numbers of girls affected is in the many tens of thousands. Last year, something like 37,000 girls were on crowd funding sites trying to raise the money to get their breasts removed.
(Most private & government insurance won't pay for "gender affirming" mastectomies on minors - yet. California insurance regulators have led the push to change this by recently issuing a ruling designating the healthy breasts of young females with gender identity issues "abnormal structures" akin to congenital birth defects & tumors. )
In a study published in 2016, UCLA specialists in "transgender medicine " for youth did a survey of females age 13-25 who had come through their clinic & had their breasts removed for reasons of "gender affirmation."
The mean (SD) age at chest surgery in this cohort was 17.5 (2.4) years (range, 13-24 years), with 33 (49%) being younger than 18 years. Of the 33 postsurgical participants younger than 18 years at surgery, 16 (48%) were 15 years or younger
For some reason, the link to the source for the above won't work. But the paper is called "Chest Reconstruction and Chest Dysphoria in Transmasculine Minors and Young Adults" & it was published in JAMA Pediatrics, May 2018.
Photos and videos of female minors showing off their mastectomy scars are all over social media. You can see some on the FB page of a Florida plastic surgeon who calls herself "Dr Teetus Deleetus." I can't link to her page, but it can be found there by her name Dr Sidhbh Gallagher.
The thousands of personal stories on the r/detrans sub on reddit paints a less rosy picture about life for these young people once the high of using surgery & hormones manufactured by Big Pharma to "become your authentic self" wears off.
I'd have to assume with the current data collected, it would be fairly clear that recipients of such treatments have favorable outcomes more often than not..
If data indicate treatments for gender dysphoria has BAD outcomes, doctors would not do it.
If taking out your appendix did not cure appendicitis, I suspect doctors would quit doing it.
If cardiac catheterization was an ineffective treatment for blocked blood vessels, doctors would not do it.
If removing your wisdom teeth did not cure oral crowding issues, doctors would not do it.
If insulin did not keep diabetics alive, doctors would not prescribe it.
Gender reassignment surgery is widely restricted to adults over the age of 18.
But what does "gender reassignment surgery" today really mean?
Most people assume that in males it means surgeries that involve removing the testes, inverting the penis into some kind of vagina facsimile & rearranging the scrotal skin to somewhat resemble a vulva.
This, however, is not the case. Only about 5% of adult males who identify as women have elected or will elect to have genital surgeries. Instead, they prefer to rebrand their genitals as "girl dicks" and "outie vaginas." Already, a remarkable number of blogs, articles & books have been written by such persons extolling the virtues of the "female penis."
In males who identify as trans or as women today, "gender reassignment surgery" means such procedures as facial feminization surgeries, implants of silicone or saline sacs into the chest to mimic the appearance of women's breasts, hairline lowering, tracheal shaves, collar bone reductions, rib removals, body sculpting, dental contouring, lip fillers, and the removal of facial & body hair.
Recently, the NYTimes told of a male person who before the COVID pandemic "came out as a woman and had gender-affirming breast augmentation." During lockdowns & restrictions, this person decided to "come out again, this time as nonbinary" and then "pursued a second gender-affirming surgery, a Brazilian butt lift."
I kid you not.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/opinion/transgender-nonbinary-pandemic-transition-.html
Though the party line is that no one does genital surgeries on minors, this is not the case. Susie Green of Mermaids - the UK organization that promotes transing kids who like toys & clothes that many adults deem appropriate solely for the opposite sex - arranged for her son Jackie to have his testicles removed & penis inverted on his 16th birthday in Thailand. After Susie plastered Jackie's story all over the press, bragging that Jackie was the youngest person ever to have this operation, Thailand banned doctors from doing it on anyone under 18.
Jazz Jennings had genital surgery in the USA at 17. The physicians who did Jazz's surgeries (the first one failed, which is common, so Jazz needed 2 more surgeries) and many activists like Susie Green are pushing to lower the customary age limits for genital surgeries on males to 15-16 or to remove age limits entirely.
A main reason for this is because - duh - by the time males reach their mid teens, most are very fond of & attached to their dicks & do not want to lose all the pleasure their dicks provide. Hence, the push to do such surgeries on younger males who've been put on puberty blockers & cross-sex hormones at early ages & thus have been deprived of the chance to reach maturity of body, mind, sexuality & cognitive ability that naturally develop in puberty & early adulthood - and who've been denied their ability to procreate in the process.
I'd have to assume with the current data collected, it would be fairly clear that recipients of such treatments have favorable outcomes more often than not..
If data indicate treatments for gender dysphoria has BAD outcomes, doctors would not do it.
I don't think assuming is appropriate here. The history of medicine is full of fad treatments that resulted in great harms. Mengele, Thalidomide, lobotomies, DES, Miltown, Quaaludes, Fen-phen, Oxycontin, vaginal mesh. And pyschiatry & psychology have advanced many crackpot theories & crazes over time: penis envy, maternal "frigidity" causing schizophrenia, satanic ritual abuse & recovered memories,
Plus we are talking about minors here. And extremely vulnerable minors at that. Many of these young people have histories of childhood sex abuse, trauma, bereavement, narcissistic parenting, social ostracism etc and "co-morbid" mental health conditions such as depression, anxiety, OCD, anorexia, cutting, personality disorders. Moreover, a significant percentage are autistic, and many are in or under state care. There's a reason iatrogenic is a word.
In the UK, the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (NICE) recently found
The evidence for using puberty blocking drugs to treat young people struggling with their gender identity is "very low
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56601386
Skeptics of the new orthodoxy, such as the Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine, point out that that between 61 and 98% of children treated with psychological counseling for gender dysphoria eventually become reconciled to their natal sex. But among children treated with puberty blockers, only between 2 and 4% become comfortable with their sex, meaning the overwhelming majority move on to cross-hormone treatment and surgery.
Sweden - a world leader in health care whose medical experts decide who gets the Nobel Prize in Medicine - was all gung-ho on these treatments for a while. Then a two-part documentary came out on Swedish TV called "The Trans Train" which brought the ugly underbelly of this kind of "health care" to public attention. So the government & health authorities decided to look into the evidence for this kind of "care" & the the outcomes. The upshot is that Sweden has put the brakes on the trans train:
https://genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/
Statistician, Amateur wrote:
I'd have to assume with the current data collected, it would be fairly clear that recipients of such treatments have favorable outcomes more often than not..
If data indicate treatments for gender dysphoria has BAD outcomes, doctors would not do it.
If taking out your appendix did not cure appendicitis, I suspect doctors would quit doing it.
If cardiac catheterization was an ineffective treatment for blocked blood vessels, doctors would not do it.
If removing your wisdom teeth did not cure oral crowding issues, doctors would not do it.
If insulin did not keep diabetics alive, doctors would not prescribe it.
Swing and a miss. This is not wisdom teeth. 90% of these children grow out of these 'feelings. '
Minors arent allowed to get transition surgery (in the US). Most doctors don't even reccomend hormone transition initially. Just say that youre talking about something you have no information on and keep it moving
too many beta males wrote:
If a doctor cuts off a child's genitals, that doctor should go to jail. Not just be banned from practicing, but go to prison for a long time.
Patient autonomy. The doctor's job is to explain the risks and benefits of the procedure. If the patient takes that information and makes a choice that they regret, that's on them.
Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad choices. I've done things I regret. Doesn't mean I think the government should substitute their judgment for my own.
patient autonomy wrote:
too many beta males wrote:
If a doctor cuts off a child's genitals, that doctor should go to jail. Not just be banned from practicing, but go to prison for a long time.
Patient autonomy. The doctor's job is to explain the risks and benefits of the procedure. If the patient takes that information and makes a choice that they regret, that's on them.
Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad choices. I've done things I regret. Doesn't mean I think the government should substitute their judgment for my own.
How old are you?
stanky legs wrote:
Statistician, Amateur wrote:
I'd have to assume with the current data collected, it would be fairly clear that recipients of such treatments have favorable outcomes more often than not..
If data indicate treatments for gender dysphoria has BAD outcomes, doctors would not do it.
If taking out your appendix did not cure appendicitis, I suspect doctors would quit doing it.
If cardiac catheterization was an ineffective treatment for blocked blood vessels, doctors would not do it.
If removing your wisdom teeth did not cure oral crowding issues, doctors would not do it.
If insulin did not keep diabetics alive, doctors would not prescribe it.
Swing and a miss. This is not wisdom teeth. 90% of these children grow out of these 'feelings. '
Do 90% of people who undergo such treatment regret it?
If not, what is the percent regret?
How many "go back" to their birth gender prior to surgical procedures?
Many smart people within & allied to the "LGBT" community have been questioning, researching & sounding the alarm about what's happening to kids who are deeply distressed because they don't conform to the rigid, regressive sex stereotypes that constitute "gender" and that are more in vogue today than in the 1950s.
Here are just a few of the organizations that have sprung up. The first was founded by "LGBT" people & their allies:
An org started & headed by Scott Newgent, a lesbian who decided to go trans in her 40s & nearly died as a result:
An org started by parents, educators, HCPs with expertise in science, medicine, child development & safeguarding:
Statistician, Amateur wrote:
stanky legs wrote:
Swing and a miss. This is not wisdom teeth. 90% of these children grow out of these 'feelings. '
Do 90% of people who undergo such treatment regret it?
If not, what is the percent regret?
How many "go back" to their birth gender prior to surgical procedures?
90%. I don't really care if people choose to mutilate themselves or not, unless they are children.
In most states minors can get a tattoo with parental permission. My 16-year old daughter says she wants to get one but it won't happen during my watch.
Do 90% of people who undergo such treatment regret it?
If not, what is the percent regret?
How many "go back" to their birth gender prior to surgical procedures?
Stop muddying the waters. We're not talking about "people" here. We're talking about minors. Many of whom have histories of familial abuse & coercion, myriad mental health problems & neuro conditions that set them apart like autism, ADHD & ADD.
A major problem with youth gender clinics is that none of them do long-term follow-ups. Once the kids age out, they are basically dead to the clinics. No concerted - or any - effort is being made to collect data about medium-term & long-term effects of these experimental "treatments."
Moreover, those who have been treated at both youth & adult gender clinics rarely go back to them to express their regret & ask the clinicians why they didn't provide better care. Coz of their fears of how they will be regarded & dismissed,
You advocate an "informed consent" model. But as the UK High Court recently found, it's highly unlikely that minors can provide informed consent to these particular treatments.. Because at the age the kids are put on these drugs, they don't have the capacity to know the importance of the sexual function, sexual relationships & reproductive capacity they are giving up.
In the US, many Planned Parenthood branches will prescribe "gender affirming hormones" to anyone age 16 & up who signs a document giving up their right to sue PP if things go badly.