Lagat in his prime - How fast would he have run with super shoes?

I’d say an easy yes to the 800m. He could have run <1:43.5

I’d give him sub-2:07 in the marathon.

Lenny, do you think he had the greatest potential range of any middle distance/distance runner ever? Greater than Bekele's range?

Wise Old Man wrote:

Doping aside....

How fast would Lagat have run a marathon in his prime if he trained for it and had super shoes? Sub 2:05? Sub 2:03?

How fast would he have run an 800 if he trained for it and had super spikes? Sub 1:45?

Sub 1:45 in the 800 for sure. From memory, most sub 3:30 guys are capable of 145 at least. I know Jakob I was only 1:46, but he is young yet and still will probably get to 1:45 if he puts the effort towards it.

The marathon is tougher to figure. I might say something in the 205s like Farah. They are both speed based with great endurance, but I think maybe one notch below the best in the world at 42.2.

He ran 12-53 at the age of 36(?)

I'd have him down as a sub 12-40 athlete in his prime

I don't know how the figures translated to the marathon but I would guess about 2-03

For the 800m I would estimate 1-44

mikehammer wrote:

He ran 12-53 at the age of 36(?)

I'd have him down as a sub 12-40 athlete in his prime

I don't know how the figures translated to the marathon but I would guess about 2-03

For the 800m I would estimate 1-44

Agree on the 5000 and 800, but I think that it then suggests (along with his 3:26) that his marathon time would not be quite as spectacular as the slightly less speed focused versions in Bekele and Geb. More like Farah.

If Lagat is one step better than Bekele and Geb at 1500, then I think it goes that he would have to be one step slower at 42.2. Pretty sure no one that has run under 3:30 at 1500 has also broken 2:04 in the marathon, even with Vaporfly.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Lenny, do you think he had the greatest potential range of any middle distance/distance runner ever? Greater than Bekele's range?

I just can’t put him ahead of KB for anything 5000 or longer. I do think Lagat in his prime would beat Bekele at 3000m and under.

The only guys I’d say would could potentially threaten Lagat in the mile AND Bekele in the 5000m are Daniel Komen and El Guerrouj.

Between those two, I would have been really excited to see what kinds of 800m-marathon times Komen could throw down. I think he’s a potential sub-1:44, sub-3:30, sub-12:40, sub-26:30, sub-2:04 guy.

Oh Please wrote:

mikehammer wrote:

He ran 12-53 at the age of 36(?)

I'd have him down as a sub 12-40 athlete in his prime

I don't know how the figures translated to the marathon but I would guess about 2-03

For the 800m I would estimate 1-44

Agree on the 5000 and 800, but I think that it then suggests (along with his 3:26) that his marathon time would not be quite as spectacular as the slightly less speed focused versions in Bekele and Geb. More like Farah.

If Lagat is one step better than Bekele and Geb at 1500, then I think it goes that he would have to be one step slower at 42.2. Pretty sure no one that has run under 3:30 at 1500 has also broken 2:04 in the marathon, even with Vaporfly.

Geb had 331 indoors

Wise Old Man wrote:

Doping aside....

How fast would Lagat have run a marathon in his prime if he trained for it and had super shoes? Sub 2:05? Sub 2:03?

How fast would he have run an 800 if he trained for it and had super spikes? Sub 1:45?

I think if he had been born a few years later and had access to the second generation EPO that the likes of Ramzi and Kiprop were going full throttle on, I'd say he could have been sub 1:44 and maybe 2:03 in the marathon. The kind of range not seen since Keino in the 60's. Truly outstanding and so sad we didn't witness it.

How was kiprop going full throttle on EPO with the ABP ?

And how do we even know lagat was doping ,?

The only available evidence is the discredited A sample

Lagat will have one of his goons now deleting this

Oh Please wrote:

mikehammer wrote:

He ran 12-53 at the age of 36(?)

I'd have him down as a sub 12-40 athlete in his prime

I don't know how the figures translated to the marathon but I would guess about 2-03

For the 800m I would estimate 1-44

Agree on the 5000 and 800, but I think that it then suggests (along with his 3:26) that his marathon time would not be quite as spectacular as the slightly less speed focused versions in Bekele and Geb. More like Farah.

If Lagat is one step better than Bekele and Geb at 1500, then I think it goes that he would have to be one step slower at 42.2. Pretty sure no one that has run under 3:30 at 1500 has also broken 2:04 in the marathon, even with Vaporfly.

Lagat in his prime would embarrass Farah in his prime at any distance under 5000. At 800 m it would be a sad spectacle to witness. 5000 m seems to be the break even for the two of them by the numbers, but we all witnessed Farah's best at this distance and likely never got to see Lagat's best. 10K and up, I am not as sure, but I think Lagat would have bested Farah's best at any distance if he focused on in his prime. KB, Geb are certainly better than Lagat starting at 5000, but it might be closer than many think at 5000, and at 1500 or less he would spank them both. I think Lagat was probably the most versatile overall. Like KB and Geb, Komen did not have world beating middle distance (800, 1500) speed.

mikehammer wrote:

How was kiprop going full throttle on EPO with the ABP ?

And how do we even know lagat was doping ,?

The only available evidence is the discredited A sample

Agreed, I know Lagat didn't dope, nor Kiprop. I'm just saying that if he had the same stuff as Kiprop didn't have, he would have been crazy quick. Likely sub 3:26 and 2:03 marathon.

mikehammer wrote:

Geb had 331 indoors

Yea I know, and maybe outdoors he might have had similar time to Farah (3:28), but I do not think Geb was ever running sub 1:45 in the 800. I think the point stands that Geb was a step below Lagat at 1500 and "potential in the 800" (since neither of them took that distance serious).

I also think Geb is still the GOAT ultimately. His 5000 and 10000 times have still only been bettered by 2 people, and he didn't have wave light or the new spikes either. On the roads, 2:03:59 is still a time that can win most races, and you put Geb in modern shoes and I bet that number is 202 flat or something.

Also, if they were 100% contemporaneous, as in exact same age, I think Bekele wouldn't have ultimately held those records over Geb. By time KB took that 5000 record, Geb had already been a pro for like 13 years and was obviously starting to lose that fast finish since he had started to transition to Marathon.

Oh Please wrote:

Also, if they were 100% contemporaneous, as in exact same age, I think Bekele wouldn't have ultimately held those records over Geb. By time KB took that 5000 record, Geb had already been a pro for like 13 years and was obviously starting to lose that fast finish since he had started to transition to Marathon.

I think Geb still is the best 5/10k kicker in history. Not even KB could match this:

Geb revolutionised the 5 and 10, bekele merely followed

It seems there has been some rewriting of history

mikehammer wrote:

Geb revolutionised the 5 and 10, bekele merely followed

It seems there has been some rewriting of history

+1

I have to go with Geb here. Geb was a 13:30/28 min runner until 93 when EPO gave Africans a level playing field. He was probably already in his early 20's. As soon as the rocket boosters became available he was unbeatable at every distance. He revolutionized the use of EPO in distance running and began the real domination of African athletes.

Bekele had access to EPO from his early teens. There is simply no comparison. Standing on the shoulders of giants.

I do believe we saw very close to Lagats best in the 5000. His best at 3000 is 7:29.00. He's not running under 12:50. No way.

Compare that Jakob who is @7:27.05. It is Jakob who we haven't seen even close to what is his 5000 best, and the guy that would beat a prime Lagat 2000 and up.

The Spade Detector wrote:

mikehammer wrote:

Geb revolutionised the 5 and 10, bekele merely followed

It seems there has been some rewriting of history

+1

I have to go with Geb here. Geb was a 13:30/28 min runner until 93 when EPO gave Africans a level playing field. He was probably already in his early 20's. As soon as the rocket boosters became available he was unbeatable at every distance. He revolutionized the use of EPO in distance running and began the real domination of African athletes.

Bekele had access to EPO from his early teens. There is simply no comparison. Standing on the shoulders of giants.

The suspicion is that that the very best athletes had access to the EPO mainly through hermens and the other agents