I average 30 miles per week and I hate aerobic runs and usually end up doing 5-8 miles at 6:45 pace which keeps my heart rate pretty high(but still surprisingly comfortable). In order to keep my HR in my aerobic zone, I have to go ridiculously slow, so slow that it feels awkward. Could I stop doing aerobic runs and go for long bike rides?
sure, but you wont reach your potential
Aerobic runs help expand your capillary beds (makes your heart/ blood flow more efficient) while running a non strenuous pace.
If you want to reach your potential in the mile and up, they are completely necessary. I suppose you could still get the aerobic gains biking at a similar heart rate, but you’d be better off running.
Imo, if you’re just doing 5-8 mile runs 5-6 days a week, you are gonna get stale. It also depends on what you’re training for and if you’re training for anything. If you just wanna maintain fitness, you’re probably fine doing what you’re doing. If your training for race fitness I’d recommend slowing it down to 7:15-7:30ish pace for your easy runs and hitting interval or tempo runs every couple days.
What do you mean by "get stale".
You must learn to turn down your ego. Who cares what pace you run your easy paces at? No one, but think how impressed they will be when you become really fast in some time after having developed your aerobic capasity.
You must have no friends, slow down and run with ya homies
Many would not consider 5-8 miles a long run. When you're going 90 minutes or more routinely you can do more harm than good if you're pushing too hard.
Your right. I hate looking slow which shouldn't matter, but even when I try to run slow my mind will drift and I will find myself running fast again. I guess I constantly have to focus on running slow, it's not easy though.
Username. wrote:
Your right. I hate looking slow which shouldn't matter, but even when I try to run slow my mind will drift and I will find myself running fast again. I guess I constantly have to focus on running slow, it's not easy though.
You're spot on right there! It's not easy, but when you succeed you will benefit hugely. Also, it takes a lot of courage and "bravery". Not everyone can therefor accomplish this task. A specific tip is to give yourself positive feedback through self-talk. Tell yourself how well you are doing, that this is good, that this is cool. It might help you turn a negative spiral of thoughts into positive thoughts. Make yourself associate slow running with positives emotions.
Username. wrote:
I average 30 miles per week and I hate aerobic runs and usually end up doing 5-8 miles at 6:45 pace which keeps my heart rate pretty high(but still surprisingly comfortable). In order to keep my HR in my aerobic zone, I have to go ridiculously slow, so slow that it feels awkward. Could I stop doing aerobic runs and go for long bike rides?
Well, yes and no. Easy runs and running up to marathon pace is great at training the slow twitch muscle fibres that are key to build endurance. If you skip it, you will not develop them to their potential. Also they have an important role to use the lactate the faster muscle fibres produce when running fast. The number of mithocondria and the capillary network around them need to be maximized and this is best developed at easy and moderate paces since one can do a lot of it.
Biking is great since one can do so much more aerobic training than running, but the transfer effect is not that good since the muscles at work are quite different. General aerobic capacity is developed, but specific development in running muscles is not optimal. So just biking will not get you there. But a combination could work IMO with enough running and a good chunk of biking to replace some of the running. This could reduce the injury risk and increase recovery, but biking also have its injury challenges...
Username. wrote:
I average 30 miles per week
If we all ran 30 miles a week then we would all feel the same.
And we would also be as slow as you on race day.
But we aren’t slower than you on race day.
You mug
I found biking 60 miles a week beneficial
20, 20, 40
and notice the pace many elites and sub-elites run their easy and long runs. It is often in the 6:30-7:00/mi pace. Compared to their race pace it is obviously significantly slower. I wish I had run my slow runs at 7:30-8:00 pace back when I was faster, but I never knew the value of it due to poor coaching. Thus I never learned how to run that slow for so long. It is an important running skill.
What I mean by “getting stale” is that you get that feeling where you never truly feel fresh, every run is a medium paced slog, and you never improve.
This is what I see in the phases of 15-30 year old male running development, both mentally and physically, to help you understand.
-Newbie: 10-20 mpw, 8-10 minutes a mile with walk breaks. 30 minute-ish 5k
-Basic Fitness: 15-25 mpw, 8:00-9:00 minutes a mile. 23-27 min 5k
-Newly Competitive: (think HS Freshy) 15-25 mpw, 7:00-8:00 per mile with more training structure 19-22 min 5k range
-Locally Competitive: 25-35 mpw, mostly 7:00-8:00 miles with tempo/interval work at 5:30-6:30 pace. 18:00-20:00 5k range
-Tryhard Phase: 25-40 mpw, 6:30-6:50 pace “all my miles need to be under 7:00” attitude. Often start workouts fast and die off by the end. 16:30-19:00 5k range (think of low-mid tier varsity high schoolers that don’t quite understand how to train) you are here imo.
-Maturity phase: 35-50 mpw 7:00-8:00 miles, 15:00-17:00 5k range. Interval and tempo work at 4:30-5:30 pace. Typically HS seniors and some juniors who are figuring out how to train effectively and smartly. In the beginning stages of building to high mileage.
-Nationally competitive: 45-70 mpw. 6:50-7:50 miles. Interval/tempo work at 4:15-5:30 pace. 14:00-15:30 5k range. This is where development ends for most that fully pursue it. Sustaining high mileage along with quality speed work. National class high schoolers - above average D1 collegiate.
Elite: 13:30-14:30 5k range. 60-85 mpw. 6:15-6:50 miles. Interval/tempo work at 4:00-5:15 Pace. These runners get national and maybe some international attention. Upper D1- National class pro. Notice how these guys are training at similar paces to you? Does that seem right comparing your time to theirs?
World class: Sub 13:30. 70-95 mpw. Similar workout stats to elite. Pro runners that race internationally.
So I guess what I along with others are saying, is that you are in the skilled but immature area of your running development. No one is going to judge you for not running sub 7 pace on your runs cause frankly no one cares. A sub 16:00 5k to your name looks infinitely better than running all of your miles at 6:30 pace no matter how you look at it, and most 15:00-16:00 guys are running their easy miles slower than yours.
I read the Scott Fauble/Ben Rosario book a couple of months ago.
Scott -- one of the few Americans to run sub 2:10:00 more than once -- does the bulk of his mileage at 7:00 pace.
CopperRunner wrote:
Aerobic runs help expand your capillary beds (makes your heart/ blood flow more efficient) while running a non strenuous pace.
If you want to reach your potential in the mile and up, they are completely necessary. I suppose you could still get the aerobic gains biking at a similar heart rate, but you’d be better off running.
Imo, if you’re just doing 5-8 mile runs 5-6 days a week, you are gonna get stale. It also depends on what you’re training for and if you’re training for anything. If you just wanna maintain fitness, you’re probably fine doing what you’re doing. If your training for race fitness I’d recommend slowing it down to 7:15-7:30ish pace for your easy runs and hitting interval or tempo runs every couple days.
Look up Easy Interval Method (Klaas Lok). It is possible to reach your "potential" without easy runs.
Easy runs are boring. They practice bad form. They may make you fitter, but they biomechanically make you a sh#&ty runner. So why not get the same benefit by doing some fun, controlled intervals everyday?
Seems like a no brainer for me. Since running EIM I haven't missed an easy run. Yes, I'm faster. Yes I run less (about 10-12k/day vs 15k/day). It's way more fun.
Death to slogging!
Username. wrote:
Could I stop doing aerobic runs and go for long bike rides?
Would they be aerobic bike rides? Would you use a lot of oxygen?
Username. wrote:
I average 30 miles per week and I hate aerobic runs and usually end up doing 5-8 miles at 6:45 pace which keeps my heart rate pretty high(but still surprisingly comfortable). In order to keep my HR in my aerobic zone, I have to go ridiculously slow, so slow that it feels awkward. Could I stop doing aerobic runs and go for long bike rides?
No, unfortunately you need the aerobic runs but you have to do them at your very best LSD pace so they will stay aerobic and not too fast.
Always Building wrote:
CopperRunner wrote:
Aerobic runs help expand your capillary beds (makes your heart/ blood flow more efficient) while running a non strenuous pace.
If you want to reach your potential in the mile and up, they are completely necessary. I suppose you could still get the aerobic gains biking at a similar heart rate, but you’d be better off running.
Imo, if you’re just doing 5-8 mile runs 5-6 days a week, you are gonna get stale. It also depends on what you’re training for and if you’re training for anything. If you just wanna maintain fitness, you’re probably fine doing what you’re doing. If your training for race fitness I’d recommend slowing it down to 7:15-7:30ish pace for your easy runs and hitting interval or tempo runs every couple days.
Look up Easy Interval Method (Klaas Lok). It is possible to reach your "potential" without easy runs.
Easy runs are boring. They practice bad form. They may make you fitter, but they biomechanically make you a sh#&ty runner. So why not get the same benefit by doing some fun, controlled intervals everyday?
Seems like a no brainer for me. Since running EIM I haven't missed an easy run. Yes, I'm faster. Yes I run less (about 10-12k/day vs 15k/day). It's way more fun.
Death to slogging!
But he's not doing the Easy Interval Method. He's just cruising fast.
Also, EIM involves quite a bit of easy running. It's just the recoveries between the very doable intervals.
OP, what kind of race times are you getting based off this training? And do you have any specific goals?
The science is pretty clear on this, if you want to know more look up the work by Dr. Stephen Seiler (he's been on a lot of podcast so if you don't like to read just look them up, pretty informative) and why for endurance athletes most of our volume should be of low intensity.