Can I train myself to better handle a net downhill marathon (CIM)?

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Not much down hill to handle at CIM. Just prepare for it as if it’s a flat marathon.

i am confused wrote:

Not much down hill to handle at CIM. Just prepare for it as if it’s a flat marathon.

Lol, this guy must an ultra trail guy ^

There’s about 900 ft of downhill. That’s not a ton, but it’s enough you need to train for it if you live in flat areas.

Fortunately, it’s not that hard to adapt to downhill running. There’s some studies that say even just 1-2 bouts of long, continuous downhill prevent fatigue 2-3 weeks later.

Start with downhill strides, then intervals going uphill/downhill, then long runs with downhills in them and run the downhills hard. You can also do some lifting, such as leg extensions, slowly lowering with heavier weight (the eccentric part).

I am no marathon runner, but have run in hilly terrain and train on hilly roads all year. Just choose to run where you find hills. The steepest hills are no use unless hill sprints, but the 1-5% are good. Uphill comes more naturally with training on it, but downhill needs more focus on not overstriding and to some extent trying to follow the decline and still land "under" you. If you weekly train on long enough faster downhill you can toughen the muscles quickly and could also improve the running form. Not much needed, but at least weekly since the muscles "forget" the toughening excess of a week.

Overall you are off mark on your assessment.

You may have more type II fiber which is somewhat more vulnerable to eccentric stress. That said, type II runners will also benefit relatively more from any elevation drop because it saves you a bit of oxygen cost (where faster runners would tend to be limited) and the same drop allows a more comfortable, natural faster running pace for you; but then any added mass and muscle diameter costs you also on climbs and in longer races, with some cooling limitations (which likely contributed to your cramping). Heat buildup increases VO2 cost of running, so the pluses and minuses here can easily cancel out, depending on December weather, your clothing, the facing wind and so forth. CIM can have a headwind or a tailwind, but tucked in a larger pack you can actually miss out on that also (think of Hall tactics for his Boston 2:04 ) not necessarily an advantage to have a pack depending on your individual strengths and weaknesses.

If however you are bounding the uphill and downhill portions you are actually climbing and dropping way more feet than the course elevation profile suggest (which isn't that much). The problem is you over-striding and not actually the course itself. Even a penny raising the rear of your treadmill for example will far exceed the CIM net drop, so the key to your problem here is in your training and mindset.

First mile is downhill. Just roll with it.

Next 10+ miles is rolling with some good hills. Train for that and don’t push early.

Last half if flat. You don’t notice the downhill.

Train with hills for the first half of your long run then end up running on a bike path that follows a river or stream flowing gently downhill.

c7runner7 wrote:

i am confused wrote:

Not much down hill to handle at CIM. Just prepare for it as if it’s a flat marathon.

Lol, this guy must an ultra trail guy ^

There’s about 900 ft of downhill. That’s not a ton, but it’s enough you need to train for it if you live in flat areas.

Fortunately, it’s not that hard to adapt to downhill running. There’s some studies that say even just 1-2 bouts of long, continuous downhill prevent fatigue 2-3 weeks later.

Start with downhill strides, then intervals going uphill/downhill, then long runs with downhills in them and run the downhills hard. You can also do some lifting, such as leg extensions, slowly lowering with heavier weight (the eccentric part).

There is not 900 feet net downhill at CIM. More like 300-350. It rolls the first half and then is gradual downhill the second half.

bovinating wrote:

c7runner7 wrote:

Lol, this guy must an ultra trail guy ^

There’s about 900 ft of downhill. That’s not a ton, but it’s enough you need to train for it if you live in flat areas.

Fortunately, it’s not that hard to adapt to downhill running. There’s some studies that say even just 1-2 bouts of long, continuous downhill prevent fatigue 2-3 weeks later.

Start with downhill strides, then intervals going uphill/downhill, then long runs with downhills in them and run the downhills hard. You can also do some lifting, such as leg extensions, slowly lowering with heavier weight (the eccentric part).

There is not 900 feet net downhill at CIM. More like 300-350. It rolls the first half and then is gradual downhill the second half.

He didn't say net downhill. You did. I think he probably means adding together all the downhill sections.

I say, never try to break downhill. Try to just flow and follow it. The graviity should pull your pace faster. The impact forces will be bigger, but by leaning some forward along the downhill, I think the peak forces will be minimized and not very different from flat running. If you do not follow the downhill it will be effectively like increasing heel striking and leaning back on flat road. then the peak forces will be higher.

188m= 616 ft. Elevation gain. Net downhill = ~309 ft.

So total downhill ~925 ft.

I can almost guarantee someone will argue the Strava data and put up a link saying the elevation gain is only 250-300ft. That’s fine. But every individual I checked had between 598 and 668 for the elevation gain, so I think the ~600ft. is pretty close.

It doesn’t really matter though; the OP said their quads were beat up from the race and that their race performance wasn’t great at CIM. Whether or not someone personally believes the downhill is insignificant, it still affects the OP. Training on hilly routes and running hard downhill will improve resistance to fatigue even in flat courses. If you struggle to run higher mileage, partly due to life/time constraints, including a decent amount of quality downhill running can help your legs hold up for a marathon.