Would it be beneficial enough for say a 5k? Maybe doing 40-50mpw of all easy runs (one long run).
Can you get faster by just doing “easy”mileage (no speed)
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Sure, if you are outta shape and have done no speedwork at a lower mileage.
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This is the worst decision one would make. 20 mpw with workouts is better than 40-50 with none.
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Sham 69 wrote:
This is the worst decision one would make. 20 mpw with workouts is better than 40-50 with none.
I'm pretty much agreeing with Sham on this one. For 5K, though, I'd say 30 mpw with workouts is better than 40-50 with none. Even just one tempo run (or cruise intervals) and one harder workout ... could be a fartlek or whatever. -
What if I do one tempo 30-40 min a week with the 5 others being easy (again one being a long run around 10 miles) I’ve been doing speed workouts twice a week one threshold and one vo2 max and I seem to still get very winded and heavy breathed on both that’s why i’m wondering if I should actually build my base more and drop some of the speed if not all
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hottytoddy99 wrote:
What if I do one tempo 30-40 min a week with the 5 others being easy (again one being a long run around 10 miles) I’ve been doing speed workouts twice a week one threshold and one vo2 max and I seem to still get very winded and heavy breathed on both that’s why i’m wondering if I should actually build my base more and drop some of the speed if not all
If you’re getting winded on threshold workouts, you’re running them too hard. Unless you’re in the middle of a racing season, you don’t need to be doing vo2max workouts.
I think just doing mileage is not a good idea. -
The thresholds (tempos) are fine like it’s comfortably hard as it should be but the K repeats and 800m repeats always have me gasping for air.
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hottytoddy99 wrote:
Would it be beneficial enough for say a 5k? Maybe doing 40-50mpw of all easy runs (one long run).
It could work. I would do 40-50 mpw including one race or race-like effort of up to 5k rather than a long run.
Kicker wrote:
I knew Joe (Henderson) back in the 1970's. I often ran with a training group of his on Saturdays. He made it really plain to me that you had to race. You couldn't just run fast on long slow distance.
It's not that I never ran intervals but I used them sparingly and to tell me what shape I was in rather than using them as a development tool.
But mostly I raced myself into shape.
I did run 8-10 miles per day year around for strength. -
hottytoddy99 wrote:
The thresholds (tempos) are fine like it’s comfortably hard as it should be but the K repeats and 800m repeats always have me gasping for air.
That's GOOD. Your body will eventually adapt to the point where you won't have to gasp for air while doing 800s. The fact that you do this means that you have MUCH room for improvement in running, so if you focus your attention on the "gasping for air" stimulus, it'll very well improve you as a runner. I experienced a similar phenomenon when doing 400s. I would feel light headed and nauseous after doing them, but a couple weeks later I'd be able to rip 'em like a CHAMP! -
So would you suggest for now me soun 40MPW increasing to 50Mpw and just keeping 1 workout in (tempo)? Would that be enough
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Yes. Better yet, add another interval workout and ditch the long run. Renato Canova says that long runs are only necessary for the marathon.
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Yes. Use frequent races as speed or pace work.
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Sham 69 wrote:
Yes. Better yet, add another interval workout and ditch the long run. Renato Canova says that long runs are only necessary for the marathon.
Sham woke up and decided to know what he’s talking about today.
I’d take all of his advice except maybe the long run. Running for more than 50-60 minutes at a time helps your body learn to tap into different more efficient energy systems, and will greatly help expansion of your capillaries.
More miles at a time helps you mentally too. Not saying you should immediately jump into it, but once I got to the point where I was running 8-10 miles on regular days, along with 12-15 miles for my long runs (super easy sustainable pace, 7:15-7:30 for someone that races between 3:50-5:10 pace for 800-5k currently). This changed me from being the kind of person that really struggled with racing 3k-5k simply because of how long the race felt to someone that feels like those races were moreso becoming a test of sustained speed rather than endurance.
It’s kind of like how a 400m race will be hard and painful, but you never voluntarily slow down or think “maybe I should pretend I pulled a muscle to end this hell” cause it’s just a 400.
This last summer/fall base I did consistent build/reduction from 55 mpw to 75 mpw. I’d say about 90-95% of that mileage was just easy-moderate. In my experience, the mileage was the biggest factor in my improvement, but you should make sure to touch raw speed, speed endurance, and LT once a week each. This could be as simple as one plyo/hill sprint session, 6-8 100-200m reps after an easy run, and tempo work whether it be CV 400s (magic workout IMO. Not mentally taxing at all but gives you nearly the same gains as a tempo run) a 3-5 mile tempo run, or 3-4 mile reps at 5k pace with plenty of rest. -
The question is - why would you want to? Even if it were possible, gains would be painfully slow and injuries not necessary less likely. Some intensity modulation is definitely good for keeping the body healthy.
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I think the answer is yes if you're newer to the sport. You can probably make gains like that up to a 20:00ish 5k time if you start off at 25:00 or more. More mileage can take someone running 8:00-9:00 miles to 7:00 miles. Workouts will take you to 6:00 & beyond.
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I'm doing marathon training this year, but starting off with base building at 35-40 mpw and working to 60-70 hopefully.
I felt if I could run 3:24 off a tiny 37 mpw average over 22 weeks in 2019, I could do even better with 40-50% more mileage. I've also really worked hard at slowing my EZ pace down so I could stack mileage, and yet be strong enough to run tempos, track workouts and the Saturday long run without getting hurt.
Copper and Sham, great threads. I worked in 3x1600 and 4x1600s, as well as 8x800s, and that did wonders for my marathon work. I also would run 16-20 milers, and then do the last 4-6 at MP or HMP, because it would then test my ability to maintain goal pace after running 12-14 and being worn down.
When I ran the actual marathon it felt easy until Mile 24, then my left knee buckled and gave way at times but I still remained upright. I didn't have side stitches and when I finished I still could breathe relatively easy--I wasn't out of breath at all. -
This is incredibly true. I went from running 6 miles in bad shoes 2/6 at 55 minutes to running 8 miles fairly easily in 65 minutes this past Tuesday (March 30).
Just simply building to 35 mpw and holding it there for a few weeks with no injuries, and having a scale-back week every 4th week. So something like 30, 32, 35, down to 29 or 30, then to 40 this week. -
I mean I guess at first, but eventually you'll plateau because all your training will be done in Zone 1 which is know as the "Recovery Training Zone". How can you get fast if you're constantly going at speed meant for recovering from stress?
If you want to get faster, you have to RUN fast! :)
You're gonna want at least 1-2 speed workouts in there and then you're good. It would look something like this,
M: Easy T:workout W:easy or rest T:easy F: workout S: easy or rest :S longrun
-fartleks are always fun
-and then some interval type thing cause taking a breather is always fun :) -
hottytoddy99 wrote:
What if I do one tempo 30-40 min a week with the 5 others being easy (again one being a long run around 10 miles) I’ve been doing speed workouts twice a week one threshold and one vo2 max and I seem to still get very winded and heavy breathed on both that’s why i’m wondering if I should actually build my base more and drop some of the speed if not all
Although it may not work for everyone, I think it's the surest way for most runners to improve over the long term. Build up your base. Without that, you're prematurely setting a ceiling on your ultimate performance level. You can add in the other stuff later.
