Claim: New Asics carbon METASPEED SKY could help you reduce the # of steps you take in marathon by over 1.2%

Very interesting making 2 different super shoes for two different runners. I think all super shoes reduce the number of steps you need by making the stride longer through the carbon and foam. This one just seems to focus on it more.

The more interesting shoe is the Edge, which they claim helps runners who focus on cadence, something they say other super shoes are not This could be the shoe for the so-called "non-responders" who haven't seen benefit from the current super-shoes.

"They recognised that the type of shoes powering the world’s fastest were only favouring one type of runner – STRIDE runners – those with a long-loping gait with large periods spent airborne who increase their speed by extending their stride length.

ASICS research however showed that these shoes do not fully support elite athletes who prefer the second major running style – CADENCE, which features smaller steps made while hovering over the ground with minimal up and down motion. Crucially, these runners increase their speed by both extending their stride length and increasing the number of steps they take per minute."

Are they the 'CheaterSpeeds' or the 'Cheater Skies'?

Well Rosie Ruiz was a pioneer. She taught herself to cut the number of steps by way more than 1.2 %.

Kinda obvious, dude. How much focus have you put on these shoes and you still miss the basic concepts?

Now Sara embraces cheating, oh how the turntables

Michael... don’t you mean oh how the tables have turned? Idiot

Jgt11 wrote:

Very interesting making 2 different super shoes for two different runners. I think all super shoes reduce the number of steps you need by making the stride longer through the carbon and foam. This one just seems to focus on it more.

I'm a 64-year-old competitive runner (probably mid-19s for 5k at the moment) and naturally, with age, my stride has shortened. My stride frequency is around 190 (or 95 depending on how you count).

In the 4% I've found I'm definitely way faster, my cadence is a little slower and my stride a little longer. I would guess in part it's due to the stack height effectively giving a longer stride, and the bounce giving a little more airtime.

I would say that a shoe that's specifically designed for shorter striders should be perfect for masters, who tend to maintain or even increase cadence with age, but lose stride-length.

I'd imagine almost everyone starts to increase both stride length and cadence at some point to run fast(er), but nobody will buy the Edge, or if they do it will be for other reasons, oblivious of the whole cadence pitch.

Odd to see a brand doing this type of marketing, telling you to buy just one and not the other. I guess they can afford it then. I'll just buy something else completely so I don't have to deal with the dilemma.

What if my data shows I tend to increase both in a linear fashion??

roadrunner vs antelope wrote:

I'd imagine almost everyone starts to increase both stride length and cadence at some point to run fast(er), but nobody will buy the Edge, or if they do it will be for other reasons, oblivious of the whole cadence pitch.

Odd to see a brand doing this type of marketing, telling you to buy just one and not the other. I guess they can afford it then. I'll just buy something else completely so I don't have to deal with the dilemma.

There's no single human gait/stride. Asics has made a new research path of finding increased efficiency in cadence patterns. Regardless increased stack with propulsion lever creates less demand increasing efficiency.

What comes to mind is a runner like Abdi who is known as a shuffler with little knee drive. Although not a high knee long stride he clearly benefits maybe though an untouched percent exists if you tuned a plate/midsole with this type of runner.

Another that came to mind Asics athlete Yuki Kawauchi not sure what Metaspeed he recently had a 1+minute PB in but he's clearly a high cadence runner and was always racing in ultra minimal custom sorties.

I think you missed the point of the criticism. Other shoes do not have two virtually identical shoes where the consumer is forced to make a decision on what is best for them. Asics is not releasing the shoes simultaneously, which is causing even more confusion.

Oddly, they are promoting the shoe that very few people would actually benefit from according to Asics's own research. The majority of runners are "cadence" runners as defined by Asics. Most runners increase stride length and cadence as they get faster. The minority of runners only increase stride length, which is categorized as a "stride" runner. Although, I am skeptical that any "stride" runner only changes stride length as they get faster, since that would promote over-striding.

I will boycott Asics indefinitely because of their pseudoscience.

In any equation you have to start with the givens to rule out any subjective outcome.

The whole point of Plated shoes are the increase in efficiency. The collection of increased stack, propulsive foams/carbon lever all contribute to efficiency found in forms of less impact, reduced HR for given pace, recovery. This is objective data to debate this would be to throw pseudoscience as an absolute. Another efficiency score was the profound recovery supershoes generate while doing sessions in as noted by Ben True and confirmed in his 10kPB.

Asics through testing has uncovered another variable contributing to increased efficiency. Placing a high turnover/High cadence runner into Metaspeed Edge yields an additional efficiency.

asics = pseudoscience wrote:

I think you missed the point of the criticism. Other shoes do not have two virtually identical shoes where the consumer is forced to make a decision on what is best for them. Asics is not releasing the shoes simultaneously, which is causing even more confusion.

Oddly, they are promoting the shoe that very few people would actually benefit from according to Asics's own research. The majority of runners are "cadence" runners as defined by Asics. Most runners increase stride length and cadence as they get faster. The minority of runners only increase stride length, which is categorized as a "stride" runner. Although, I am skeptical that any "stride" runner only changes stride length as they get faster, since that would promote over-striding.

I will boycott Asics indefinitely because of their pseudoscience.

You already don't wear them. You wear Nike. This big 'decision' to boycott a non-Nike brand is meaningless.

I would like to know how many elite runners changed their form to suit a "stride" supershoe? So they would respond that shoe? Not many I would have thought.

I think the "cadence" shoe will suit a lot of the Japanese female marathoners who are high cadence runners.

asics = pseudoscience wrote:

I think you missed the point of the criticism. Other shoes do not have two virtually identical shoes where the consumer is forced to make a decision on what is best for them. Asics is not releasing the shoes simultaneously, which is causing even more confusion.

Oddly, they are promoting the shoe that very few people would actually benefit from according to Asics's own research. The majority of runners are "cadence" runners as defined by Asics. Most runners increase stride length and cadence as they get faster. The minority of runners only increase stride length, which is categorized as a "stride" runner. Although, I am skeptical that any "stride" runner only changes stride length as they get faster, since that would promote over-striding.

I will boycott Asics indefinitely because of their pseudoscience.

You are misinterpreting what they are saying:

Cadence runners increase BOTH cadence and stride length with a max cadence approaching 230.

Stride runners are disproportionately increasing stride, and are not increasing cadence beyond 180.

So if you are never hitting cadences of above 180, then you are probably a 'stride runner'.

Note the speeds they test are between 3 and 4 min/k

They only discovered this while testing the Sky, that's why the Edge shoe comes later.

*max cadence 210 i meant to say

roadrunner vs antelope wrote:

I'd imagine almost everyone starts to increase both stride length and cadence at some point to run fast(er), but nobody will buy the Edge, or if they do it will be for other reasons, oblivious of the whole cadence pitch.

Odd to see a brand doing this type of marketing, telling you to buy just one and not the other. I guess they can afford it then. I'll just buy something else completely so I don't have to deal with the dilemma.

Wasn't sure where I was on this, so took the sample data off of Garmin Connect for easy runs Vs a few races, and it was very clear that my stride length increased to a much greater extent than my cadence. (27% Vs 10%)

From what I understand, others have a more linear increase between each factor, and others are even cadence dominated.

For me though, definitely the Sky would be the way to go.

roadrunner vs antelope wrote:

I'd imagine almost everyone starts to increase both stride length and cadence at some point to run fast(er), but nobody will buy the Edge, or if they do it will be for other reasons, oblivious of the whole cadence pitch.

Odd to see a brand doing this type of marketing, telling you to buy just one and not the other. I guess they can afford it then. I'll just buy something else completely so I don't have to deal with the dilemma.

I dunno, it seems pretty smart from a marketing perspective. Isn't that the whole thing with running shoe stores and running shoes in general? People love iterating through different kinds of shoes offering different kinds of specialties trying to see which one is the perfect shoe for them. Of course, this is often a never-ending search, and that works out great for the shoe companies.

The fact that they came out with these multiple new angles of "responder" compatibilities works very well in their favor. Without those new angles, there's no reason to not just buy the incumbent Nikes.