Lactate threshold - The key to individual top performance at middle/ longdistance.

Yes, but there are different ways to get there.

How do you think Brazier is building his threshold? With 10 mile tempo runs? No, he is doing lots of short but fast reps, but with short recoveries.

Igloi got famous for doing stuff like 30x200 on very short rest, like 100m jog in 30s, which was not a speed session but actually focused on building threshold (the short rest makes HR drop and the pace of 200s is slow enough so lactate doesn't accumulate).

The Ingebrigtsen use the common 1k/2k reps to build threshold, but also sessions like 20x400 with short rests which are at a more specific pace (like 10k pace). The goal of all these sessions is to improve the threshold.

Saying "improving lactate threshold is key to run better" is like saying "improving race times is the key to run better", as they obviously correlate very strongly. The key is HOW to improve the lactate threshold in the best way, and HOW each different type of runner (fast-twitch vs slow-twitch) in each different event (800 vs 1500 vs 5000 etc.) gets the needed adaption in the optimal way for him.

JS, this is very insightful information that’s probably not known by most of letsrun. I know that I for sure didn’t know that tempo runs are important to building endurance.

Thanks for sharing! This is why you are such a great coach!

-=~_=_= The Spicy McChicken Dominator _~=_-

I agree Phil.

Speed based 800m and maybe even speed based 1500m runners will be more efficient and thus benefit more from stuff like CV 400s and long intervals rather than the classic 20-40 minute tempo run.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Yes, but there are different ways to get there.

Absolutely correct! :).

The Wizard JS wrote:

If we analyzes history`s very best training systems we find lactate threshold is of main importance.

WOW! Revelation!

You should start applying your knowledge to your athletes because so far they have had horrible results.

Yes! Very horrible results.... ! )) 13 winners of international races and among them winners at

Valencia marathon and Nice -Cannes marathon 2016. A winner of the prestigious Discovery XC race in Kenya, a gold and bronze medal at South African Champs , a debute lady marathon at 2:26 , a lady half in 1:07 . sub 28 min 10 k road a couple of times.......the list of good results is very long now and all done in just six years now. Come along ! Jump on the Dancan train .........

True.

Lie.

Lie

Lies.

Funny. Where can I find it? With a reference to the coach, of course.

... and crash!

This is what one of your athletes had to say about you and your coaching:

Your claims? Prove them or shut up.

Hold the phone!

Did Canefis really fire the Magic Wizard? What happened to the supposed 2:20 marathon? I thought they were a team! Should I be surprised one guy who actually could be real and agreed to be coached by this clown bailed out? Sounds just like Below Average Phil. He gave it an honest try, but well, I won't rehash what happened there........

Mate, you're wrong. No enough amount of LT work will be better than building a good aerobic base.

LT is only important when you have a good base, not the other way.

Go fix your system first.

and this quote from the legendary "real low mileage performers" thread still upsets people after 15 years:

Henok:

'Here is a great post by the now legendary Antonio Cabral:

"The runner that i coach and that did 13:36 with a full time Job occupatioon (7 hours a day – 5 times a week) that´s Rui Lopes. The name may not say noting to you, but the moment that he did that and what did keep my attention and I did try to analyse that´s why with 40-45min continuous runs every day and 1 “weak” workout as Control test once a week (Ex: 4X1000m 2:50-2:52 average 4 min intervals).

Thus that´s very easy to remember his weekly traning schedule

Monday,Tuesday, Thurday and Friday – 40-45min continuous runs going a few times in 3:10 by kilo.

Wednesday – 30min warmup + 4-5X1000m in 2:50-2:52 avarege range with 4min intervals

Saturday and Sunday (if ther´s no weekend competition) – the same 40-45min.

If thare´s a weekend competition – Saturday: 20min easy and Sunday – competition.

I asked to myself – if he is not able to run faster that that in workouts (2:50/kilo that´s 14:10 5000m pace) then why he did 13:36? We were in the early 80s and I didn´t know yet what are LT runs, but it took my attention that the runner did every 45min very fast than their teammates – his continuous runs weren´t easy jogs, but tempo runs."'

The Wizard JS wrote:

If we analyzes history`s very best training systems we find lactate threshold is of main importance.

Why didn’t you post this in the thread specifically dedicated to you and your world famous coaching?

Antonio Cabral was legendary all right: a legendary liar who fooled you.

There was never any Portuguese runner named Rui Lopes who ran 13'36" for 5000m and Antonio has never coached any elite runner in Portugal - he is a notoriously bad coach who is avoided by any serious runner in Portugal.

Anyway don't believe me? See for yourself on the Portuguese rankings - you won't find any Rui Lopes on the 5000m rankings, oh and you won't find Antonio Cabral's self acclaimed 3'39" 1500m former Portuguese national record performance in the rankings either (I wonder why ? LOL!!):

100% correct ^^

The Wizard JS wrote:

If we analyzes history`s very best training systems we find lactate threshold is of main importance.

I more and more refer to Goodhart's law:

. The more we focus on a specific indicator, the more we move away from adressing the real goal.

Lactate threshold, VO2 max, Running Economy, etc, all are simplified numbers that weakly or more strongly correlate with great race performance. If you have a great LT, you won't necessarily run a fast 800 or 1500, but if you improve the LT speed you might improve the race time.

The Ingebrigtsens do threshold training (what is that?) like 60/r30, 1k/r60s, 5-6min/r60s. The pace is from marathon to 3k pace. I think this is just variation of paces, but with intensity control using the lactate as an indicator. It might have more or less to do with threshold pace.

I think maxlass is a better number, the maximum steady state lactate level one can sustain over a (race) distance. Canova amongst others have experienced that runners performing well have a high maxlass. To get to a high maxlass one need many different abilities, both anaerobic as well as aerobic and also many different forms of training.

But I can see that the Ingebrigtsen model is copied by many and that many succeed in improving. I guess threshold training in the Ingebrigtsen or other forms is well established and important.

One thing I am considering is if this only work well for younger athletes. They have the speed, the power and the anaerobic capability and needs to develop the aerobic capability, which easy, moderate and threshold training develops. For older runners the speed, the power, the anaerobic capability and the type II muscle fibres gradually is lost. I think for these runners the emphasis should be increasingly on keeping/building the fast and powerful capability. If doing only threshold paced training, a bunch of the fast muscles will get too little adaptations.