George Floyd / Chauvin trial starts monday

849 wrote:

Too bad Floyd wasn't a big white guy, maybe he would have gotten this treatment:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/11/us/johnny-damon-dui-bodycam-video-spt-trnd/index.html

You think this cop handled this guy better than the Minneapolis police handled GF?

None of what you said justifies his being murdered in cold blood!

Not in my hood wrote:

Would DC's lawyer be able to get information on the body weight and fentanyl level amounts found in the massive number of people who have OD'd on fentanyl and share their names and their statistics with the jurors, or is that some sort of HIPPA violation?

I would think it would be very powerful to have a scrolling of names that have died from that drug and show all those who have died with lower limits in their systems than GF. That would convince me that there was a high probability that he too had lost his life to that awful drug.

Collecting data only on people who have died from fentanyl is a statistical error. You also need data on those who have survived after taking fentanyl.

Another issue would be the lack of information on whether deaths from fentanyl occurred to people who had developed a tolerance or not.

It would also be powerful to have a list of cases where neck restraints were used. Are there examples of neck restraints lasting 10+ minutes not resulting in death? Or are there only examples of it being used safely very briefly?

Borya wrote:

...

You didn't give the example of falling from a cliff as "a way of illustrating the unlikelihood of an extraordinarily rare factual circumstance." You gave it as an example of something "from which they will surely die."

Sounds like the prosecution's best offense is to place this in the context of "systemic racism" and repeat loosely related statistics and questionable facts ad nauseum. If they play hard on the jury's emotions and demand a quick verdict, they might have a chance.

Also sound like some people here really wanted DC to murder GF, and do it because he was black. That's pretty disgusting. You can find other examples of actual racist cops being racist if you need something to support your protests.

Not in my hood wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If the victim was an upstanding member of society - and white - or even a little old lady, God forbid - no one would be coming forward to justify Chauvin's actions. It wouldn't matter what the victim had in their systems. But the police wouldn't see the need to "restrain" a white suspect like they did Floyd - especially a "respectable" suspect. There would be outrage from whites all over America that the police killed a person over an alleged fake 20 dollar bill. But not here. Because the victim was a black American male. He must have deserved it. That's how it's always worked in your country, hasn't it?

Wrong again!

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/11/no-racial-bias-police-shootings-study-harvard-prof/

I think there is a widespread view that these high profile deaths (Garner, Floyd etc.) are examples of racism and police brutality. I think it's a shame the focus isn't more on police brutality, with people remaining agnostic on allegations of racism (maybe it plays a role in various ways in various cases, maybe it doesn't).

Police killing people is the more fundamental issue. Even if certain types of people (men vs women, poor vs rich, certain races, sexual orientation) are more likely to die, they would still be at risk of being killed by police if the rate at which they were killed was reduced to be in line with more favored groups.

All he had to do is sit in the police car, like every other defendant who is initially arrested. While attempting to avoid his arrest, all by himself, Given his intoxication level, breathing would have been difficult at best. Mr. Floyd’s intentional failure to obey commands, coupled with his overdosing, contributed to his own death.”

CHRIS ROCK SAID IT BEST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

America's fury wrote:

Sounds like the prosecution's best offense is to place this in the context of "systemic racism" and repeat loosely related statistics and questionable facts ad nauseum. If they play hard on the jury's emotions and demand a quick verdict, they might have a chance.

No. Their best offense is to question the claims made by the defense.

If fentanyl killed Floyd, it wouldn't matter if Floyd was the grand wizard. If fentanyl didn't kill Floyd and the neck restraint did, it doesn't matter if Floyd was racist. He could just have made poor judgements about the threat posed by Floyd, or the safety of the restraint for that length of time. Or he could have been on a power trip (angry at Floyd and the officers questioning him and the bystanders telling him to get off).

These are some examples of the skepticism of the claims made by the defense:

“I’m skeptical of the notion of opioid overdose as the cause here,” said David Juurlink, head of the Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center in Toronto. “The sequence of events isn’t characteristic of opioid overdose.”

Fentanyl kills by shutting down the part of the brain that controls respiration. Breathing slows, then stops, followed by the heart.

If Floyd had ingested an opioid and fell asleep on his way toward an overdose death, several experts told The Post, he wouldn’t, or couldn’t, have spent the next 20 minutes coherently interacting with police, repeatedly describing his claustrophobia and anxiety, battling with them as they tried to put him in a squad car and struggling against the three officers who pinned him facedown on the street. Instead, he would have become even more sluggish on the path toward unconsciousness and death, these experts said.

“It’s just complete garbage to call it an overdose,” said Kimberly Sue, medical director of the Harm Reduction Coalition, a national advocacy group, and a Yale School of Medicine instructor. In an opioid overdose, “a person is basically blue, unresponsive. … It happens usually from the moment people use to 10 minutes.”

Others noted there is no evidence that police or emergency medical personnel who later arrived used the fast-acting opioid antidote naloxone on Floyd, most likely because they did not believe he was showing signs of an opioid overdose. Both carried the medication, with the United States in the midst of the worst drug epidemic in history. Naloxone can be administered by injection or nasal spray.

“Overdose deaths shouldn’t occur in front of trained first responders” who arrive in time, Babu said.

I thought I just need to show some doubt? If I see 5000 names scrolled in front of me for minutes and all have died with lower levels than GF, I would believe that he too could have died, especially if he had limits three to 10 times more than those names I just saw.

Do we know if GF was a long time fentanyl user? How long does one need to use to develop such a high tolerance? How does an unemployed guy pay for all those drugs?

wazzu1452 wrote:

All he had to do is sit in the police car, like every other defendant who is initially arrested. While attempting to avoid his arrest, all by himself, Given his intoxication level, breathing would have been difficult at best. Mr. Floyd’s intentional failure to obey commands, coupled with his overdosing, contributed to his own death.”

CHRIS ROCK SAID IT BEST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

But that requires personal responsibility!

America's fury wrote:

Sounds like the prosecution's best offense is to place this in the context of "systemic racism" and repeat loosely related statistics and questionable facts ad nauseum. If they play hard on the jury's emotions and demand a quick verdict, they might have a chance.

Also sound like some people here really wanted DC to murder GF, and do it because he was black. That's pretty disgusting. You can find other examples of actual racist cops being racist if you need something to support your protests.

I have not seen anyone say that, but I see a lot of people want to DC to go to jail because he is a cop.

Borya wrote:

No. Their best offense is to question the claims made by the defense.

a bit iffy, since the prosecution lays its case then the defence replies.

of course the prosecution can respond, but the ball is in the prosecution's court to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

dont let armstronglivs know that a member of the general public can ave a general idea of trial basics.

It seems like a bit of an overstatement to claim that anyone who thinks that Chauvin is innocent is “deranged.” It depends what the charges are. Based on the way the incident was reported last year, I bet that most Americans probably believe that Floyd died from suffocation from the officer kneeling on his neck. However, if you read the autopsy you know that he died from a heart attack after overdosing on fentanyl.

The officer did not murder Floyd. The only question is whether he knowingly or negligently caused the death of someone whom the officer may not have known has overdosed on a drug. There’s a good chance that Chauvin was overcharged and will be acquitted. I fully expect rioting and looting after the trial by BLM and Antifa

wazzu1452 wrote:

All he had to do is sit in the police car, like every other defendant who is initially arrested. While attempting to avoid his arrest, all by himself, Given his intoxication level, breathing would have been difficult at best. Mr. Floyd’s intentional failure to obey commands, coupled with his overdosing, contributed to his own death.”

If he was overdosing, wouldn't he have probably died regardless?

If he wasn't overdosing, but his behavior resulted in Chauvin restraining him, which caused his death, I agree Floyd can be blamed - at least partially - for causing his own death. But Chauvin and the other officers are partially to blame as well. I would argue they are more to blame than he is. Yes, he could have sat in the car initially. But once he was handcuffed, and restrained, couldn't the four officers have calmly explained that they were going to get him up and put him in the car and they would restrain him again if he resisted?

Floyd made some poor decisions, but once he was restrained there was nothing he could do. Chauvin on the other hand made a poor decision to continue restraining Floyd and he had the opportunity to change his position. The other officers and bystanders expressed concern and Floyd made clear he was struggling to breathe. Only Chauvin could reasonably have changed the outcome at this point. Junior officers or bystanders could have physically challenged him, but I don't think that was a feasible option.

Armstronglivs wrote:

If the victim was an upstanding member of society - and white - or even a little old lady, God forbid - no one would be coming forward to justify Chauvin's actions. It wouldn't matter what the victim had in their systems. But the police wouldn't see the need to "restrain" a white suspect like they did Floyd - especially a "respectable" suspect. There would be outrage from whites all over America that the police killed a person over an alleged fake 20 dollar bill. But not here. Because the victim was a black American male. He must have deserved it. That's how it's always worked in your country, hasn't it?

How many riots were there for Justine Damond?

Gary__567 wrote:

It seems like a bit of an overstatement to claim that anyone who thinks that Chauvin is innocent is “deranged.” It depends what the charges are. Based on the way the incident was reported last year, I bet that most Americans probably believe that Floyd died from suffocation from the officer kneeling on his neck. However, if you read the autopsy you know that he died from a heart attack after overdosing on fentanyl.

The officer did not murder Floyd. The only question is whether he knowingly or negligently caused the death of someone whom the officer may not have known has overdosed on a drug. There’s a good chance that Chauvin was overcharged and will be acquitted. I fully expect rioting and looting after the trial by BLM and Antifa

Won't President Biden unify the nation by then?

How do you expect him to do that?

Or, Ashli Babbitt?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/who-was-ashli-babbitt.html

Let it Rupp wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If the victim was an upstanding member of society - and white - or even a little old lady, God forbid - no one would be coming forward to justify Chauvin's actions. It wouldn't matter what the victim had in their systems. But the police wouldn't see the need to "restrain" a white suspect like they did Floyd - especially a "respectable" suspect. There would be outrage from whites all over America that the police killed a person over an alleged fake 20 dollar bill. But not here. Because the victim was a black American male. He must have deserved it. That's how it's always worked in your country, hasn't it?

How many riots were there for Justine Damond?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond

Odd that they actually held that officer accountable and you aren't complaining about how it wasn't malpractice.