Breaking News: USATF flips order of 5k/10ks at Olympic Trials. Why did they do this and who is it benefitting?

It looks to me like they now match the Olympic schedule.

https://www.theroar.com.au/olympics/olympics-events-schedule/olympic-athletics-schedule/

Isn't the answer obviously? (matching the Olympic schedule)

Might not match your paranoid personality but it is by far the most likely answer.

And the big losers are the guys whose best event is the 5k. A guy like Teare can't come back in the 1500m. The second biggest losers are the 5k guys whose back up was the 10k. Guys like True or Fisher could have double back in the 10k if they missed the team in the 5k. Now they would need to run the 10k first and hope it doesn't effect thier 5k too much. Or put all their eggs in one basket.

Woman are pretty much the reverse.

If they had not made the change the men would run 10000m on June 26th and then July 31st. With the change the men run 10000m on June 18th and July 31st. Does this matter? Probably not much but surely there is no hidden conspiracy at play.

Jimmbo wrote:

This is a non issue Rojo.

It's certainly is an issue

Let's just talk money. Do you know how hard it is to get lodging in Eugene? I'm sure some parents have already booked travel. One top coach texted me, "We've spent a lot of money on lodging that we'll now have to change."

The schedule now is very close to the Olympic schedule which I think is good as if you are going to double, people should qualify in the same order. If tha'ts the reason - and again, why didn't they explain the reasoning in the press release - then I'd have been in support of it being in that order initially but really wish the mistake had never been made to get it wrong.

This has a HUGE IMPACT on America's #1 distrance runner Shelby Houlihan. Before at the Trials, she could easily do the 1500/5000 double as the 1500 was scheduled for days 1, 2, 4 and the 5000 for days 7 and 10. Now she'd have to run the 5k and 1500 prelims on day 1, then the 1500 semi on day 2, the 5k final on day 3 and 1500 final on day 4.

One can argue that she wasn't likely to double at the Olympics. Yes, but she most certainly would have liked to double at the Trials in case you get tripped or something. Plus This just cost her tens of thousands of dollars in terms of prize money/bonuses.

It definitely changes people's Olympic chances as well. If someone like Molly Huddle was only going to run the 10,000 at the Trials, this could help her. . Some of the other 10k hopefuls - are likely to try out in the 5000 first now. There, they either make the team or tire themselves out. Both of which help her in the 10,000. Then again, if she was planning on trying both the 5 and the 10, this makes it a real tough decision for her.

I think the pure 5000 women don't like this as they'd like to see the 10,000 types get tired out.

Ben True probably hates this change. Before, he got to try out for his favorite event first - 5k, then try the 10k. Now it's the opposite.

It's pretty hard to analyze but I think it's disappointing that they are only realizing this now.

USATF employees, I know someone will be reading this. You need to up the size of the 1500 fields. Having 30 people for 3 rounds is a disgrace. You shouldn't reduce the 1500 fields from 30 to 24 in round 1. There should be at least 36 entrants, and probably 45 to 48. More athletes get to realize an Olympic Trials dream and its' more entertaining for the fans.

omg. they listened to the ben true podcast in which he mentioned the original schedule and not needing to decide in advance. now he will have to decide about the 10.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

And the big losers are the guys whose best event is the 5k. A guy like Teare can't come back in the 1500m. The second biggest losers are the 5k guys whose back up was the 10k. Guys like True or Fisher could have double back in the 10k if they missed the team in the 5k. Now they would need to run the 10k first and hope it doesn't effect thier 5k too much. Or put all their eggs in one basket.

Woman are pretty much the reverse.

^^^Well said.

It is February. They are not exactly springing this on them at the last minute. There is plenty of time to adapt to this change. IF they cannot adapt, they should not be Olympians, especially with the adaptation already required of them due to the pandemic, postponement and precarious status of these Olympics. The athletes have always been pawns on the chessboard.

“There should be at least 36 entrants, and probably 45 to 48. More athletes get to realize an Olympic Trials dream and its' more entertaining for the fans.”

Like you said, it’s already impossible to find lodging in Eugene.

I’d be more okay with cutting to 24 entrants from 30, and reducing the number of heats. The runners on the margin have zero chance of making the team, and potentially interfere with the performance of our best prospects (tripping, over racing, injury)

This was done to insure that Galen Rupp could get his afternoon nap at home and then make the 30 minute flight to Eugene on one of Nike's corporate jets. He will enjoy a late afternoon snack at Track Town Pizza, win the race, and then depart Eugene airport at 9:00 PM to make it home before his typical bedtime. Clearly, this is the work of one A. Salazar pulling the strings from exile. Muwhahahahahaha!

correctamundo wrote:

“There should be at least 36 entrants, and probably 45 to 48. More athletes get to realize an Olympic Trials dream and its' more entertaining for the fans.”

Like you said, it’s already impossible to find lodging in Eugene.

I’d be more okay with cutting to 24 entrants from 30, and reducing the number of heats. The runners on the margin have zero chance of making the team, and potentially interfere with the performance of our best prospects (tripping, over racing, injury)

Please. The sport isn't just about the athletes. The NFL is about putting on a product for the fans. The #1 thing for fans is the Olympic Trials. If you put an extra 15 people into the Trials, each on of them probably had 30-50 HIGHLY interested friends/family members that will watch.

Plus you want to have the same number of heats as they have at the Olympics to replicate the situation. And there is some discretion involved. If the #1 seed in the 1500 trips in the first round, guess what the official is going to place them in the next round. There is literally no downside and all upside.

30 to 50 fastest 1500 US performers in 2020:

(30)

4:11.73i Rachel Schneider (UArm) 2/01 Lehane

4:12.12 Alicia Monson (OnAC) 8/15 Music City DC

4:12.14i Lianne Farber (NBalB) 2/28 Boston LC

4:12.34i -Whittni Orton (BYU) 1/25 Sander Chall

4:12.62 Marisa Howard (unat) 7/31 Newberg

4:12.71i *Katie Rainsberger (Wa) 2/28 Boston LC

4:12.80i Raquel Lambdin (GoldC) 2/28 Boston LC

4:13.13i Angel Piccirillo (adi) 2/28 Boston LC

4:13.26 Sinclaire Johnson (Nik) 8/22 Sunset Tour I

4:13.53 Taylor Werner (Ar) 8/15 Music City DC

(40)

4:13.68 Kim Conley (NBal) 8/29 Sunset Tour II

4:14.47i -Danae Rivers (PennSt) 2/08 Millrose G

4:14.61 Gabrielle Jennings (FurmE) 8/22 Murphey Cl

4:14.64 Sara Sutherland (Sauc) 8/29 Sunset Tour II

4:14.77 Emily Oren (OnAC) 8/15 Music City DC

4:15.14 Elly Henes (unat) 8/15 Music City DC

4:15.65i Taryn Rawlings (UArm) 2/01 Lehane

4:15.83 Josette Norris (ReebB) 8/15 Music City DC

4:17.00 Alli Cash (unat) 8/08 Newberg

4:17.38 Courtney Barnes (UArm) 8/29 Sunset Tour II

Sorry, but none of those names are recognizable and won’t budge the fan meter. 30 to 50 highly interested friends and family of 6 to 18 additional athletes won’t budge the fan meter either. You’d be talking an extra heat (2 counting the men) adds another 30 to 40 minutes to the schedule, and track meets are much too long already. NFL games are no more than 2 hours long; track meets take forever.

I wonder if they are trying to get the women's 10000 field size down. My understanding is there may be quite a few women with an automatic qualifier for the trials 10000. If some of them think they have a decent chance in the 5000, maybe they'll feel too beat up (if they make the 5000 final) to come back in the 10000 even with several days of rest.

There was a thread on the Track and Field News message board about maybe having to have 2 sections in the women's 10000 or have like 40 or more women in one heat only.

I think of Karissa S.

Rojo: I admire your skepticism/curiosity. These are the signs of an active mind. It seems strange that they did not provide any explanations. Perhaps somebody could try to get in touch with their press office, or something along those lines, to get an official statement.

One thing to note is that the 5k imposes a higher anaerobic strain (running at a state just under VO2max at near-maximal heart rates), requiring a variable recovery period, especially of anaerobic capacity (yes, the 5k is still predominantly aerobic). A 10K would correspond to a point somewhere between VO2max and Lactate Threshold heart rates/states. Perhaps there was some consideration of the basic physiology and recovery times, although that doesn't make much sense, as the male and female orders remain opposite to one another. In any case, the recovery periods seem to remain sufficient, despite the changes.

It would be interesting to hear what USATF has to say, when prompted.

Let's decipher this , these are the Olympic trials The goal is to make the Olympic team and run in the Olympics shouldn't they mimic the Olympics schedule then ?

Look on the brighter side, big winners are the W5k specialists who can now recover to run the 10k if they fail to make top-3 in the 5k.

Karissa Schweizer, Elisa Cranny, Vanessa Fraser all benefit here as the 5k is their best event but can now double back in the 10k if they want to/have to.

Even though Cranny still likes the 1500, the new schedule now makes this decision easy.

Who does not have it easy is Shelby Houlihan. 1500 - 5k double is out.

Up until now, we always presumed she would run the 1500 then double back in the 5k at the Trials but stick with the 1500 at the Olympics. Not anymore. Now, regardless of whether she runs the 1500 or 5k at the Trials, her only backup event is the 10k.

Might we see her try to pull a Sifan Hassan and do the 1500 - 10k double at the Trials then both or one or the other at the Olympics?

Looks like Shelby should have run the 10k at The TEN the other night . . .. or, be entered in the TX Qualifier 10k tomorrow evening.

Gillgan wrote:

Let's decipher this , these are the Olympic trials The goal is to make the Olympic team and run in the Olympics shouldn't they mimic the Olympics schedule then ?

Yes.. But you'd think a guy making a million a year would have realized that 2 years ago when they first came up with the schedule.

And if that's the case, why not just admit it? NOthing to hide, then tell us the truth.

Remember, this is the same outfit we had to sue to get them to follow their own Pan Games selection criteria.

They claim that nearly 200,000 attended the trials in 2016. I assume that many of those people are counted several times. Are they allowing the same number this year? I attended in 2016 and had no problem finding lodging about 45 days prior to the meet. It should be easier this time because they will probably limit attendance.