The slow sprint times tonight prove the new shoes don't work. My apologies for talking about the shoes.

The first time I ran a half marathon race in Vapoflys, I bombed. Three weeks later I ran 4 minutes faster, which was my fastest time at the distance in 5 years and about 60 seconds faster than my stretch goal.

One relatively slow race probably doesn't mean much and/or the effect is less obvious in races that aren't very long.

RegionalAtBest wrote:

One relatively slow race probably doesn't mean much and/or the effect is less obvious in races that aren't very long.

Couldn't you say that one relatively fast race probably doesn't mean much? There's been what? 3-4 really fast meets in the past few weeks? I think given that you're putting a ton of talent into one race, (since there are fewer races to dodge people) athletes really have to bring their A game. It's essentially like giving a championship final a pacer or two, and then being surprised when everyone ends up running fast. That combined with the historically unparalleled circumstances could just be bringing out really fast times in people.

We don't have a huge sample size of athletes, only a few meets recently to judge how the spikes would be working. Not all of the athletes are wearing super spikes and they're still PRing. Let's hold off judgement a little bit further.

And to the Nick Willis 1200m TT thing, I'm sure plenty of us have had an idea of how in shape we were, and then we go out and race or TT and blow our estimate away. I had a 7 second PR in a mile race where I didn't even think I was in that great shape. Of course, I'm not anywhere near the level of Willis, but still, something to keep in mind.

There's so many factors other than the new spikes that could be leading to faster times, it's not the smartest idea to say the reason we're seeing records fall is because of them. Houlihan ran her 5k AR without new spikes, it's not a crazy stretch to say that these athletes are in great shape and running fast races due to extenuating factors that don't include shoes.

rojo wrote:

I'll never bring it up again. EOM..

Thanks!

interestingly enough Rojo -- we have not yet seen the new NIKE AIR ZOOM VIPERFLY spikes

these will likely debut later this outdoor season and resemble the air zoom victory with bubbles in the forefoot.

I'm just really buzzed right now. Love you ROJO! ❤

If the shoes work, then why did only Kipchoge and Bekele break 2:02? Why did only Cheptegei smash the 5000/10000 records?

There's a big crowd of elites that should be running at the same level, if all they need to break through is a new advanced shoe.

The brutal truth is a bouncy shoe can't make you faster, it's just not how running works. It's all a gimmick. If anything, the surface you land on, including the shoe, should be as hard as possible.

In years past, no one really went to a race to do more than han race. Time rarely mattered because place was where the $$$ was at. Now, with limited opportunities, everyone is gunning for records every time out to prove that their contracts are worth something. Hence, getting the same $$$ in fewer races. How does Hoppel stay relevant if he doesn't keep up with an incredibly motivated Brazier? This new generation is challenging conventional attitude of doing the least amount possible to win at the level they're competing against. People are looking ahead to compete with best and not leaving it to question.

In the USA, sprinters looking to win the trials have always been at the top of the world, so nothing is changing on that front, but distance runner sucked here for almost 30years internationally. With that changing here and in other nations, that's raising everyone's game. If american women decide that they can run 14:30 5k, Africans are going to decide that they should run 14:05.

Also the shoes are good too.

“It’s so unfair that everyone is running faster by cheating with vaporfly.”

“Why don’t you get your hands on a pair of those and also happily running faster instead of whining?”

“I did, but I didn’t run faster because I’m a non-responder. The responders are cheating!”

Why don't you end the speculation, at least for yourself, and actually run a bit in the supershoes? Let's have some empirical evidence from letsrun.

vaporfly responder wrote:

“It’s so unfair that everyone is running faster by cheating with vaporfly.”

“Why don’t you get your hands on a pair of those and also happily running faster instead of whining?”

“I did, but I didn’t run faster because I’m a non-responder. The responders are cheating!”

ROTFL ?

Rocket Mann wrote:

And to the Nick Willis 1200m TT thing, I'm sure plenty of us have had an idea of how in shape we were, and then we go out and race or TT and blow our estimate away. I had a 7 second PR in a mile race where I didn't even think I was in that great shape. Of course, I'm not anywhere near the level of Willis, but still, something to keep in mind..

Never heard of this among elite racers.

My guess about the advantage of super spikes is .75 seconds per lap, and Nick Willis saying he was 2 seconds faster for 1200m would support the 3/4 sec/lap guess.

The super spikes, and maybe the tracks as well, are making a significant difference.

Watch the video online where Coe sets the mile record in 3:48.54

Is there a difference in spring each stride for Coe (and for the other runners as well) as compared to runners in recent races, to include the Michigan HS miler that ran 3:57 indoors?

Maybe some of the recent spring in the stride for so many runners results from an emphasis on plyometrics or weights that didn't occur back when Coe was racing for WRs.

Please note that Coe was known for having a lot of spring in his stride even compared to other elite middle-distance runners.

I could only guess how Coe would run in the super spikes, as well as with any changes made to the tracks. I do remember a having a conversation with an experienced racer about a really fast indoor track in the '90s, so that one's time was substantially faster if on that track than any other indoor track. I think it was Harvard's indoor track.

For those who wonder about the effect of PEDs, I note that Coe was straining up the final straightaway and visibly tired after the race, which I didn't see in subsequent years from those on PEDs.

I don't know much about these shoes, but I think they would affect sprinters less than marathon runners. I mean have you ever tried running a marathon in spikes?

This is the best comment I have read about this topic! American distance runners are finally racing! I expect to see amazing times at the Olympic trials!

-1/10