I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
sub 1:30 half marathon/sub 3:00 marathon
Training Advice/Discussion
Marathon
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If I look at your numbers, it seems that your endurance is not build out yet.
Your 5k PR is way better than your 10k PR.
You need to focus a little more on longer runs and maybe push your weekly mileage a bit.
For a sub 3 hour Marathon you need a 10k time below 38 minutes I think.
So I don't think you want to set your goal to high right now.
For the near future improve your 10k, get a sub 1:30 HM and go from there.
You will get there, you just have to be patient.
Good luck. -
I agree with the other poster, you're in need of some more miles and some more strength (tempos, long runs) work.
Your 5:36 is a lot better than your 5k & 10k. A 5:36 says that you're capable of 1:28/3:03, Pretty sure back in the day I ran 5:36 over the summer then an 18:50ish 5k then a 1:26 half & 3:03 marathon in the fall. The 5:36 fell to 5:10ish in the winter and then I broke 5:00 for the first time the next summer, followed by a 2:47 marathon in the fall.
I was always running pretty decent mileage though -- 60-70+.
As far as advice goes for the 5k, even pacing is the way to go. Start off at 6:05. See if you can maintain it.
But I would try to up your mileage if you're serious about the longer stuff. Your 10k needs an update. The potential is there. Gotta get up to 50-60 range. Gotta go out and do tempo work, as well as specific pace stuff. -
Yeh sorry but you have absolutely no chance of breaking 3 at the moment. Need a lot more miles, 5k time of 18:30ish, 10k of under 38 mins
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If you run more than 25-30 miles per week it will be a heck of a lot easier. The mileage in my mind is more important than any specific workouts. Any workout at all along with much higher mileage and you'll reach your goals.
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I broke 90 mins (just) for the HM on 25-30 mpw (I think my peak week might have been 32) and I also did a 5K about a month before this just under 20 mins. It's definitely possible to do that. I was doing quite long intervals once a week and completed long runs up to 12 miles, but I did them off road and no quicker than 8 minute miling. A few months after this race my 5K best dropped another 30 secs+ without much effort.
But I agree with the others about the marathon - sub 90 does not equal 3 hours marathon. I know many people who can do an 85 min half but struggle to get under 3 for the full marathon. Aerobic conditioning will be much more important so more miles are needed just as a start. I am aiming for a sub 3 hr marathon next year - I'm giving it so much time to build up to as I think of it as a completely different beast to the half. -
Like everyone else, I think you do not have endurance for either. In fact 47 minute for 10k is atrocious time if you can legit do sub 20 for 5k. That shows extreme lack of "endurance at speed."
The only time I tried to run 42.2 quickly, I was averaging about 35 mpw for the prior year, and I managed 5:26 mile, 18:50 5k, 39:20 10k, 1:26 half, and 3:04 marathon, all within about 4 months, and I think I was endurance based and not speed based. That mile was much more painful than the other races. The half being the easiest of them all. In the marathon I was 1:28:11 at the half and that was pretty chill too, but like most, 20 miles is really the halfway, and I was hurting those last 10k. -
It's not just that you can't hit your goal times right now. You should not try. You're a teenager and, typical for teen runners, aerobically underdeveloped. Don't jump into marathon training. Spend at least a couple years doing the basic work that goes into getting better at mile-5K. Race some 10Ks in the off season if you want. But you have to do that basic endurance training first, so you can do the HM endurance training next, so you can think about marathon-specific training at some point. Don't rush it.
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Teen Runner wrote:
I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
I happen to be much older (47) than you and I'm a guy. But my mile and 5K times are about the same as yours. But my 10K is about 7 minutes faster and my half marathon 1:29:43.
Your mile & 5K times show you definitely have the potential to go sub 1:30 at some point, but your 10K times shows your endurance drops off a lot, past 5K.
Get your 10K time down to 41:00-41:30 and your 10 mile to about 1:09:xx and your sub 1:30 half will be well within your reach.
What got me there?
Daily running. Increasing my total mileage from 40/week to 55/week. Throwing in a tempo and/or speed workout every week. Most importantly adding 1 mile per week to my weekend long run until I got to a 15 mile long run, a couple weeks before my 1/2 marathon race.
TLDR version: Work on endurance. -
pro hours wrote:
Yeh sorry but you have absolutely no chance of breaking 3 at the moment. Need a lot more miles, 5k time of 18:30ish, 10k of under 38 mins
An 18:30 5k is way worse than a 37:59 10km. I know of many 38 low to 38 mid 10k runners who have under 3 hours for the marathon. -
Sub 1:30 is a good near-term goal. Running 3:00 for the marathon requires quite a bit more endurance and is probably not an appropriate goal right now. In HS I was basically an okay track runner (9:57 two mile PR) but very good on roads and longer races. For me the key was to have one run per week that was probably longer than many HS runners do - 12, 13 or even 15 miles, at least one hard run of 6 to 8 miles at 6:15/mile to 6:30/mile pace and intervals or hill repeats. I'm not sure what I would have done in HS for the marathon but as a college sophomore I ran my first race in 2:43 which is a pretty good first marathon. If you want to focus on longer races you probably need to be running at least 50 miles/week and then when you get to that point and have dropped your 10K time you can reassess what is appropriate.
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Teen Runner wrote:
I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
Your 5km time of 19:53 is not too far off what I'd expect from a 5:36 miler, but that 10km time shows an extreme lack of endurance. Don't even attempt to run a half marathon until you can break 42 minutes for a 10km.
Gradually increase your mileage. Even for 5km training, you need to be averaging at least 35 miles per week. If you actually want to try a half marathon or marathon, you need to get closer to 45-50 miles per week for several weeks to go for a good time.
You should be doing several easy runs at 10 min/mile pace or slower. Eventually, you can get your easy run pace down to 9 min/mile, but that 10k time is over 7:30/mile pace. This tells me that in order for a 10k to feel easy enough that you can talk while running, you need to be running it really really slow. You should do 3 harder days, 3 easy days and one rest day (or you can have an easy day instead of the rest day). Your easy days will be 3 - 6 miles at 10 min/mile. Your hard days will be as follows
- 20 min run at 7 - 7:30 min/mile, plus 10 min warm-up and 10 min cooldown at 10 min/mile
- 5 x 1km each in about 3:45 - 3:50 with 1-lap jogging rest (@ 10min/mile pace or slower)
- 7-9 mile run at 10 min / mile pace -
MatthewXCountry wrote:
Teen Runner wrote:
I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
Your 5km time of 19:53 is not too far off what I'd expect from a 5:36 miler, but that 10km time shows an extreme lack of endurance. Don't even attempt to run a half marathon until you can break 42 minutes for a 10km.
Gradually increase your mileage. Even for 5km training, you need to be averaging at least 35 miles per week. If you actually want to try a half marathon or marathon, you need to get closer to 45-50 miles per week for several weeks to go for a good time.
You should be doing several easy runs at 10 min/mile pace or slower. Eventually, you can get your easy run pace down to 9 min/mile, but that 10k time is over 7:30/mile pace. This tells me that in order for a 10k to feel easy enough that you can talk while running, you need to be running it really really slow. You should do 3 harder days, 3 easy days and one rest day (or you can have an easy day instead of the rest day). Your easy days will be 3 - 6 miles at 10 min/mile. Your hard days will be as follows
- 20 min run at 7 - 7:30 min/mile, plus 10 min warm-up and 10 min cooldown at 10 min/mile
- 5 x 1km each in about 3:45 - 3:50 with 1-lap jogging rest (@ 10min/mile pace or slower)
- 7-9 mile run at 10 min / mile pace
Jumping on here for a question. I'm also trying to break 1:30 in the half, with a close-ish recent 5k time trial time (~21:00 5k), but I'm running my easy runs at around 8:30/mi, not slower than 10:00/mi! (See bolded part of quote) Am I running my easy runs too fast? -
Maybe this is different because I’m female, but my 5k is 19:40; 10k around 41 mins and I am aiming for sub-1:30 in a half. In a solo 10 m trial, I ran 1:09 and was feeling okay at the end so I don’t think it’s too far off for me. I’m not sure why 1:30 is your aim when your 10k should be!
I can only just break 5:50 in the mile as well..
Definitely need to work on your endurance. I’ve found tempo runs around 7 min mile pace for 4 miles very useful. I run around 50 mpw. This took a while to build up to!
For what it’s worth though, I broke 47 mins in my first ever 10k on 10 mpw so maybe I’m more endurance based. -
I was running 1:35 with a 21 min 5k. I think you really need to be close to 20 (and ideally sub-20) to have a shot at a 1:30 half.
My easy days range from around 8 min/miles to 9:30 min/miles. After a hard day they tend to start around 9 and I can work down to maybe 8:25 or so. Yesterday I ran 9 @ 8;15 avg and it felt fine, if a little too fast. -
Runny McRunnerson wrote:...
Jumping on here for a question. I'm also trying to break 1:30 in the half, with a close-ish recent 5k time trial time (~21:00 5k), but I'm running my easy runs at around 8:30/mi, not slower than 10:00/mi! (See bolded part of quote) Am I running my easy runs too fast?
I think 10/mi is way too slow for a sub 20 5k runner. You need to run at least fast enough that your mechanics don't start to change. I probably wouldn't run slower than 8:30 to be honest. -
femalerunner30 wrote:
Maybe this is different because I’m female, but my 5k is 19:40; 10k around 41 mins and I am aiming for sub-1:30 in a half. In a solo 10 m trial, I ran 1:09 and was feeling okay at the end so I don’t think it’s too far off for me. I’m not sure why 1:30 is your aim when your 10k should be!
I can only just break 5:50 in the mile as well..
Definitely need to work on your endurance. I’ve found tempo runs around 7 min mile pace for 4 miles very useful. I run around 50 mpw. This took a while to build up to!
For what it’s worth though, I broke 47 mins in my first ever 10k on 10 mpw so maybe I’m more endurance based.
I am also female (posted few things about my training/races above) - you have slightly faster race times than I did for the 5 and 10K when I broke 90 for the half, so I'm sure you're on track to do it. I'm also more endurance based. My easy pace would have been 8-8:30 m/m, in my opinion 10 m/m would be way to slow. Keep plugging away and I bet you can do it. -
Teen Runner wrote:
I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
I think a lot of the other replies here assume that OP is a somewhat experienced runner, but I'll guess the opposite. I will guess that OP is quite new to running, doesn't do workouts, and doesn't do long runs. I'll assume that the 10k time isn't a real effort, but rather the time it took OP to jog 6 miles one time.
In this case, can OP break a 3-hour marathon in 10 months: highly doubtful but maybe possible due to youth and inexperience. If there is talent there and OP is highly untrained (which it sounds like is true) then it's possible.
OP, if you're going to run a 3-hour marathon, then you would be able to run a medium to medium-hard effort 6 mile tempo in 39 minutes or less and a hard 10k effort around 38:Low. I think that you will need to be able to achieve this about five months before your marathon so that you can give yourself about a month of easier running but decent base weekly mileage (~50 mpw) before you start a 16-18 week marathon build (55-70 mpw) while you have the fitness to reach your goal. This is a recipe for injury, but I also like to see people try to reach their goals.
The question becomes: Can you get from a 5:36 mile (or 1600 m) now to a 38:Low 10k in 5 months?
1. Start running a tempo (2-3 miles) on Tuesdays and Fridays. (Also warm-up and cool-down, duh)
2. Start running a long runs (at least 60 minutes) on Sundays.
3. Work weekly mileage up to >40 mpw over the next 2 months.
4. Increase the tempo length to 3-6 miles.
5. Increase the long run to over 10 miles.
6. Do a 10k time trials in 5 months. If you are under 39 minutes, then you have a chance at the 3-hour marathon.
[You can find smarter training plans, but I'm guessing that this is better than what you've been doing.]
I predict that if you built up for a marathon from now, you would run 3:35 - 3:25.
Realistically, if you start running smarter, build mileage, and don't get injured over the next 5 months and then built up for the marathon, you would be able to run 3:20 - 3:10.
If things go very well and you are amazingly able to hit a 39:00 10k in 5 months and then you build for the marathon, then you could run 3:10 - 3:00 with a very slim chance at breaking 3:00.
Good luck. -
@ Oh Please and @femalerunner30: thanks for the advice on the easy runs! I'll stick with 8-9 min/mi easy runs; I just wanted a 2nd opinion because 10 min/mi sounded way too slow...fine for recovery days maybe. @femalerunner30, are you 30 years old? If so, I'm also 30, but I'm a slow guy, so we'll see how I compare to you. Oh, today I did a 1mi time trial on the track, and ran a 5:51! So I need to work on my endurance with a ~21:00 5k time. I hate coming back from time off after injuries.
@Teen Runner: Regarding the 1:30 half in 6 months, that's 100% doable! You already have the leg speed to run a 1:30 half (a 5:36 mile is equivalent to a ~1:28 HM based on Jack Daniels' VDOT Calculator), but not the endurance. I used the Hansons' Advanced HM training plan 2 years ago to PR with a 1:31 HM, and they say that within one training cycle (which for their plan is 18 weeks, or ~4 months):
"Highly trained athletes should look for improvements in the 2-4% range, while newer runners can often expect slightly higher rates of initial improvements."
You're not a "highly trained athlete", so you'll improve by more than 4%. A 1:30 half is equivalent to a ~19:30 5k (6:17/mi) or a ~40:00 10k (6:26/mi). If you improve by the following percentages, this is the shape you need to be in so that ~4 months later you can be in 19:30 5k/40:00 10k shape:
4%: 20:19/41:40
5%: 20:32/42:06
7%: 20:58/43:00
10%: 21:40/44:27
Since endurance is your weakness, that 5k race, and later a REAL 10k race/time trial (that 47:07 10k CANNOT be your current fitness with a 5:36 mile) will give a good idea of your HM race potential. Like others have said, increasing your mileage, long runs, and long tempos will get you a 1:30 half.
Regarding the sub-19 5k, you have close to the leg speed for it, but I don't know how your endurance is without a more recent and accurate longer race/time trial. A good workout I've heard of is 3-4x1mi repeats at goal 5k pace with 60-90s jogs between reps. And I would definitely wait until you're better at races up to a HM before attempting a marathon.
(The improvement calculator I used to give you those times:)
https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/improvement.php -
Runny McRunnerson wrote:
MatthewXCountry wrote:
Teen Runner wrote:
I was wondering about my chances of breaking 1:30 for the half marathon in 6 months and breaking 3:00 in the marathon in 10 months . I am currently training 25-30 mpw, and my PR for the mile is 5:36 (Dec 2020), 5K: 19:53 (Aug 2020), and 10k is 47:07 (Nov 2020). And also, I need the advice to pace to break 19 in the 5k, since I'm racing on in 4 weeks.
Your 5km time of 19:53 is not too far off what I'd expect from a 5:36 miler, but that 10km time shows an extreme lack of endurance. Don't even attempt to run a half marathon until you can break 42 minutes for a 10km.
Gradually increase your mileage. Even for 5km training, you need to be averaging at least 35 miles per week. If you actually want to try a half marathon or marathon, you need to get closer to 45-50 miles per week for several weeks to go for a good time.
You should be doing several easy runs at 10 min/mile pace or slower. Eventually, you can get your easy run pace down to 9 min/mile, but that 10k time is over 7:30/mile pace. This tells me that in order for a 10k to feel easy enough that you can talk while running, you need to be running it really really slow. You should do 3 harder days, 3 easy days and one rest day (or you can have an easy day instead of the rest day). Your easy days will be 3 - 6 miles at 10 min/mile. Your hard days will be as follows
- 20 min run at 7 - 7:30 min/mile, plus 10 min warm-up and 10 min cooldown at 10 min/mile
- 5 x 1km each in about 3:45 - 3:50 with 1-lap jogging rest (@ 10min/mile pace or slower)
- 7-9 mile run at 10 min / mile pace
Jumping on here for a question. I'm also trying to break 1:30 in the half, with a close-ish recent 5k time trial time (~21:00 5k), but I'm running my easy runs at around 8:30/mi, not slower than 10:00/mi! (See bolded part of quote) Am I running my easy runs too fast?
Yeah probably too fast, but remember that the OP had a 10k time of 47+. If you can do a 5k in 21 but a 10k in 44, then 8:30, while probably too fast, is not completely unreasonable. As a rule of thumb, you should be able to talk in complete sentences during the run. I would guess a 44min 10k guy, should be running easy runs in 8:45 - 10 min/mile. This is assuming you are running at least 35 miles per week. Of course, if you are running only 4 days a week, easy runs can be faster.
