JK- what’s the most rational explanation for how Sara Hall runs significantly faster at age 37

As Meb said, if you're able to get the training in it's possible. You might need an extra day of recovery here and there, but if you can still get the training in that's necessary you can still run those times. The problem when you get older is obviously that the training gets harder and harder to get done. Sara takes minimal breaks between races because it makes sense that she'll always be able to do the training if she never lets herself slip out of fitness.

2 the GILLS!!!

The focus is on her since Ryan is retired. His coaching works for her. She has kids and is happy. She’s suited for the marathon and gets stronger after a cycle. She has has had minimal injuries. The shoes help a bit. She likes racing. Lots of reasons.

cb wrote:

The focus is on her since Ryan is retired. His coaching works for her. She has kids and is happy. She’s suited for the marathon and gets stronger after a cycle. She has has had minimal injuries. The shoes help a bit. She likes racing. Lots of reasons.

Pretty much this except that the “shoes help a bit” part should read “The shoes help a ton”. Not a diss - everyone has the shoes now and she still won (plus took second in London), but let’s be honest with ourselves. She clearly responds well to the shoes and they likely account for half of the 7 minutes she has dropped in the last 18 months or whatever. Still some impressive improvements beyond the shoe gains though.

GBohannon wrote:

Pretty much this except that the “shoes help a bit” part should read “The shoes help a ton”. Not a diss - everyone has the shoes now and she still won (plus took second in London), but let’s be honest with ourselves. She clearly responds well to the shoes and they likely account for half of the 7 minutes she has dropped in the last 18 months or whatever. Still some impressive improvements beyond the shoe gains though.

Probably true. But that shoe discussion gets boring. Everybody can have them now, so it's a level playing field.

Love the comment that "she likes racing." I think more elites need to understand that you get better by competing and going off the grid and racing twice a year. She's not hiding out afraid that one bad race will end her career. Being Ryan Hall's wife gave her some celebrity but she's earned it by getting better and better and you see that progression in her race results.

37-38 seems to be a good age for some runners.

https://www.worldathletics.org/news/feature/lopes-historical-sub-208-marathon

A big component beyond the shoes with the fast times we are seeing is the lack of racing. So many pros over train and being forced to rest and focus on fewer race efforts is better for the body, especially long term.

hduwhsh wrote:

A big component beyond the shoes with the fast times we are seeing is the lack of racing. So many pros over train and being forced to rest and focus on fewer race efforts is better for the body, especially long term.

While I agree with your point generally speaking, I do not think it holds true for this specific discussion about Hall. After all, she just raced a marathon 11 weeks ago.

Common sense 2020 wrote:

GBohannon wrote:

Pretty much this except that the “shoes help a bit” part should read “The shoes help a ton”. Not a diss - everyone has the shoes now and she still won (plus took second in London), but let’s be honest with ourselves. She clearly responds well to the shoes and they likely account for half of the 7 minutes she has dropped in the last 18 months or whatever. Still some impressive improvements beyond the shoe gains though.

Probably true. But that shoe discussion gets boring. Everybody can have them now, so it's a level playing field.

Completely agree.

Most rational explanation: She is a better marathoner than 1500m runner and she spent her prime running the wrong event and training the wrong way. She probably is doing like 30%+ more mileage (say 110mpw instead of 80) and after taking a couple of years to adjust to it is responding well. And the shoes can't be discounted.

If you look historically a lot of people who don't start running marathon til thier 30s tend to peak at 35-37. It takes a couple of years of training for a lot of people to get everything right. And guys like Meb ran 2:09:08 pr at 36:5 after a decade of racing them.

Crazy one: At 35 or so after a couple decades of competing clean, she starts doping like mad.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Most rational explanation: She is a better marathoner than 1500m runner and she spent her prime running the wrong event and training the wrong way. She probably is doing like 30%+ more mileage (say 110mpw instead of 80) and after taking a couple of years to adjust to it is responding well. And the shoes can't be discounted.

If you look historically a lot of people who don't start running marathon til thier 30s tend to peak at 35-37. It takes a couple of years of training for a lot of people to get everything right. And guys like Meb ran 2:09:08 pr at 36:5 after a decade of racing them.

Crazy one: At 35 or so after a couple decades of competing clean, she starts doping like mad.

What's so crazy about it? She can run faster and have a longer career. Plenty of other athletes are doing it.

maybe their family needs the payday really badly

Maybe she was running the wrong event the whole time.

It's like you posted improvement in her track times.

She is past her physical peak but was not training as seriously at age 30 which is a shame in retrospect.

Covid

Armstronglivs wrote:

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Crazy one: At 35 or so after a couple decades of competing clean, she starts doping like mad.

What's so crazy about it? She can run faster and have a longer career. Plenty of other athletes are doing it.

Sure and why didn't she do it at 25? Why does she wake up at 35 and say I am going to start injecting EPO?

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Most rational explanation: She is a better marathoner than 1500m runner and she spent her prime running the wrong event and training the wrong way. She probably is doing like 30%+ more mileage (say 110mpw instead of 80) and after taking a couple of years to adjust to it is responding well. And the shoes can't be discounted.

If you look historically a lot of people who don't start running marathon til thier 30s tend to peak at 35-37. It takes a couple of years of training for a lot of people to get everything right. And guys like Meb ran 2:09:08 pr at 36:5 after a decade of racing them.

Crazy one: At 35 or so after a couple decades of competing clean, she starts doping like mad.

It would be interesting to know how many long road distance careers have been rendered badly sub-optimal by going through the common "moving up in distance" routine, thus leaving non-prime years (or less of them) for the half and marathon. On the one hand, I presume that the elites I'm talking about it and those that advise them spend a LOT of time thinking about their best distance(s). On the other hand, perhaps they still often come to bad conclusions? Of course, this is moot if they greatly enjoy the shorter distances and are determined to get as much out of themselves as possible.

Still, for those most interested having maximal success - at whatever distance - it would be interesting to know "too many" of them spend time "too much" time at shorter distances.

And if nothing else, the huge number of sub-2:05 East Africans have clearly shown us that one need not "work up" in distance across a career.....although it seems that that idea still survives in the US/west.....

I think part of the improvement is from leaving crappy Magness training in 2016 to be coached by Ryan. I had a thread about this earlier, but it was deleted because the Letsrun owners are Magness fanboys.