The way we use masks makes no sense at all.

Not my post

You just contradicted yourself on your key argument. You say that outdoor transmission is common. You then say that the only source of transmission for many people is a trip to the grocery store (while wearing a mask). And none of this is backed up by any peer-reviewed research.

Where are you working where you’ve worked with thousands of patients with COVID-19? If you’re actually in an ICU then you’ll only have a very limited number of available beds. Even the busiest hospitals haven’t had thousands of patients infected with COVID.

If you’re actually a healthcare worker, thank you. But regardless, please stop with the anti-science falsehoods.

Murdock wrote:

You just contradicted yourself on your key argument. You say that outdoor transmission is common. You then say that the only source of transmission for many people is a trip to the grocery store (while wearing a mask). And none of this is backed up by any peer-reviewed research.

Where are you working where you’ve worked with thousands of patients with COVID-19? If you’re actually in an ICU then you’ll only have a very limited number of available beds. Even the busiest hospitals haven’t had thousands of patients infected with COVID.

If you’re actually a healthcare worker, thank you. But regardless, please stop with the anti-science falsehoods.

I work in an urban healthcare system with many ICUs. We doubled our ICU capacity with "pop up" ICUs. No, I did not contradict myself and I did not say those people were wearing a mask on their way to the grocery store. The people that I respect the most universally believe that outdoor transmission is a risk. Yes--these are doctors, public health experts and scientists. I did say that researchers cannot give people COVID-19 as part of trying to understand airborne transmission. This is why the definitive airborne research does not exist. We are positive that the air does carry coronavirus (particularly in aerosol settings) and that citation is one example of that simple fact in that an air duct was positive. I find that compelling and interesting--thought I'd share it.

I will also add that I want the economy to be healthy and I believe that mask wearing is a very reasonable precaution as we try to open up and stimulate...life. However, a quick scan of the news reveals a bad surge in progress worldwide that even skeptics can't deny. I have the privilege of also consulting healthcare organizations worldwide. Clinicians are exhausted and overwhelmed--suicide rates are up significantly. See the stories from Liege, Belgium today as an example. Many patients will die, of course. Percentage-wise the weak and ill are most at risk. Of course. I am directly aware of many previously healthy people who have died and others who developed long-term complications. We are only beginning to understand the range of respiratory and other complications in those who have recovered and even in those who never showed symptoms.

Good luck to your political candidates and good health to all.

First of all, going to the store is not a low risk situation, pretty much anything indoors is high risk because of the way the air gets circulated and questionable filtration systems.

Walking in the park is low risk, unless there's a ton of people to where you can't socially distance. The debate on whether covid clouds are really a thing or if they're primarily caused by large droplets which fall to the ground after a few seconds hasn't really been resolved.

I personally do not believe the viral load from passing a covid carrier for one second is enough to infect a healthy person, but it sounds possible if that person has been under stress, undersleeping, overtained, etc. There's also the matter of whether passing multiple carriers during a walk or a run will increase your viral load exposure to where you are susceptible to infection.

I don't think it's worth insulting people over their choices about outside mask wear considering there hasn't been enough research on the matter.

Hill Stomper wrote:

There are obvious ethical restrictions on direct research on human subjects so most lab tests are limited to measuring droplet trajectories and contamination on surfaces that could only be caused by infected air.

You are not allowed to give people a deadly disease in the name of research.

This is a weirdly ignored point -- thanks.

It's frustrating there isn't -hard evidence- for the use of masks as outward protection in a community setting. But, how would such a trial be done in a useful and practical fashion... I don't now. Relying on physical tests of masks, etc, gives us decent information.

Stranger Danger! wrote:

We wear them in exceptionally low risk situations, like walking in the park and going to the store, but not in what everyone knows are high risk situations, like visiting with your family.

Perhaps this is why cases are exploding, even as mask usage approaches 100% in public.

You're not going to catch covid from a stranger, you're going to get it from your own family and friends.

"Linsey Marr, a well-known expert on airborne virus transmission from Virginia Tech, said that she recommends wearing masks outside if the area is crowded and “you will be passing by people frequently, say, more than one per minute as a guideline but not an absolute rule.”

“When we walk by people outside, we might catch a whiff of their exhaled breath plume,” she said. “Any single brief, passing exposure is low risk, but such exposures might add up over time.”

“My advice follows the precautionary principle and the fact that wearing a mask does not harm,” Marr added."

Just wear a mask.

Unless you are outdoors and don't want to.

Just wear a mask.

Nah.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Nope you are wrong and don't care. Someones dear dear granny is going to die and it's your fault.

Good argument. You win. Wait, did you yell that really loudly and angrily because if you did you definitely blew me out of the water.

Sarcasm bro. I'm on your side.

Hill Stomper wrote:

I work in the ICU, bro. You stop.

No you don't. There isn't a thing as "working in the ICU". Maybe you are one those ladies in scrubs I see dancing on the social medias though?

Rick Sanchez wrote:

Masks save my life. I don't get beat up by Karen for not wearing one.

Wrong, Karen's don't wear masks..

Do you wear a hat and gloves every time you go outside? There's a chance the temperature could drop.

YMMV wrote:

noharmnofoul wrote:

"Linsey Marr, a well-known expert on airborne virus transmission from Virginia Tech, said that she recommends wearing masks outside if the area is crowded and “you will be passing by people frequently, say, more than one per minute as a guideline but not an absolute rule.”

“When we walk by people outside, we might catch a whiff of their exhaled breath plume,” she said. “Any single brief, passing exposure is low risk, but such exposures might add up over time.”

“My advice follows the precautionary principle and the fact that wearing a mask does not harm,” Marr added."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/10/17/world/science-health-world/catching-coronavirus-outside-possibility/

Just wear a mask.

Unless you are outdoors and don't want to.

Lol. Was that for real? A whiff of their breath plume huh? And what do we know about the masks and face coverings most everyone is using? The breath plumes go right through those. Why would she not suggest wearing n95 at least in that case? And the virus is actually a smaller nanometer size than n95 mask openings. This is just all such a big tragic joke. You just gotta shake your head say wtf.

Here's my slightly informed impression of how things work. Feel free to critique.

There are two means of airborne transmission: aerosol and droplets. Aerosols are tiny and can stay suspended in the air for longer periods of time (tens of seconds, minutes, I don't know). Aerosols cannot be stopped by masks since the particles are much smaller then the mask lattice. However, aerosol transmission is believed to be less common than droplet transmission. Why?

Possibly because aerosols contain much less of the virus than droplets?

Conversely, droplets are much larger and stay suspended in the air for only short periods of time (seconds). Because they don't last long in the air, you don't have to worry as much about walking through an area previously inhabitated by a maskless person. Because they are larger, masks do stop (or reduce) an infected person from spraying droplets everywhere.

And that is why masks decrease how much an infected person spreads the virus into his immediate environment.

Hill Stomper wrote:

I work in the ICU, bro. You stop.

You are making your ICU and yourself look foolish. Don't do that.

Stranger Danger! wrote:

You're not going to catch covid from a stranger, you're going to get it from your own family and friends.

I understand the second part but not the first.

I have a cousin that got it from a stranger and then passed it to his family.

How are you not going to get it from a stranger?

Star wrote:

Stranger Danger! wrote:

You're not going to catch covid from a stranger, you're going to get it from your own family and friends.

How are you not going to get it from a stranger?

He's not speaking in terms of absolute will/will not. He's speaking loosely in terms of likelihoods. The data suggests that the likelihood of transmission increases significantly with both the proximity to the infected, and the amount of time spent with the infected. Most people spend more time, and at a closer range, with their family and friends than any specific stranger. So, they're more likely to catch it from their family and friends.

Stranger Danger! wrote:

We wear them in exceptionally low risk situations, like walking in the park and going to the store, but not in what everyone knows are high risk situations, like visiting with your family.

Perhaps this is why cases are exploding, even as mask usage approaches 100% in public.

You're not going to catch covid from a stranger, you're going to get it from your own family and friends.

If I wear a mask at all times outside my house, and so does my family, how could we possibly catch it from each other?