One of my sophomores just ran a big PR for 3200 off of the splits listed above. He asked what I thought he could do for 1600 and I told him about 4:40.
Thoughts?
We’re in CA so we can’t race. We did a few tt this fall. Tonight was our last one, then we’re taking a break before ramping back up for the season which starts December 7. This particular kid was indifferent about cross for most of his freshman year, but kind of caught the bug and ended up being our #4 frosh last year. Came out for track and ran all kinds of different events. In the only three meets we had he went
Week 1
5:10
2:14
Week 2
24.54
56.02
Week 3
2:12
PV 9 feet
Then we got shut down. He and a friend trained pretty consistently after that although the kid missed about 3 weeks in April after jumping off a roof. Built up to about 40-45 over the summer. Training through the fall was sporadic with interruptions due to wildfire air quality issues.
4 tt this fall
Early September 5:08 for 1600 on a hot afternoon where the air quality went from ok to crap as we were getting ready to run. Should have called it off.
Mid September 17:44 for 3 miles on the track
Early October 10:54 for road 2 mile
Late October 10:34 for track 3200.
I think he would have been low 4:40 tonight. I’m hoping he can drop a low 4:30 during track.
10:34 for 3200 on splits of 5:34 / 5:00
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How tf does someone run a 10:34 with those splits? That’s absolutely absurd to run the second half in 5:00. Wildly impressive. Based on this result I would guess around 4:45
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24.54 speed and enough strength to ring up a 5:00 after an opening 5:34? Pretty good. I would imagine 4:38-4:42 range.
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4:40/9:59
He can break 10.
Alan -
Right now, 4:50. If Cheptegei went out in 4:30 and closed in 3:52, would you be asking how fast he can run a mile?
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Give this kid a pacer and let him do a proper 3200/1600. With this pacing, the result is nowhere near his ability.
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Sounds like your school needs the wavelight to keep this kid on pace.
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The funny thing is that I had told the top 3 guys splits to go out on 10:50 pace. They had run 10:52, 10:54, 11:08 on a road 2 mile 2 weeks ago. It looked like they were having trouble right from the beginning. The guy I’m talking about was getting dropped aftershock couple of laps.
The other two guys, seniors, went 10:38 and 11:00. Not sure what got into them in the last mile. -
4:40 is a decent guess. I would predict something like a 10:20 for 3200 if perfectly paced on that day. And for kids who are not aerobically strong yet, 1600 time multiplied by 2 + 60 seconds, give or take, is often a reality.
I don't know what kind of talent you are used to working with, but somebody like this would have me very excited looking at possible progressions over the next three years. -
men go husk wrote:
Right now, 4:50. If Cheptegei went out in 4:30 and closed in 3:52, would you be asking how fast he can run a mile?
If Cheptegei had shown the HS freshman boy 24.52 200m equivalent (so like 21.9 in his case) then, yes x100. -
4:47 - 4:50/1600 ... his 3200 could be near 10:18
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Just looked at his splits. His last 2 800s were 2:36,2:24. The 2:24 was 75,69.
Yes. I’m excited to work with this kid over the next 3 years. -
So. After the 3200 time trial. I gave my team 3 weeks off from organized training. Some kids took that first week of the break completely off and some just went easy, OYO for the first week.
Most of the kids ran at a significantly reduced volume for the next two weeks. First week back to organized practice went pretty well.
The 2 main sessions for my top guys were: Monday, Long 9 miles @ 7:30 ish pace. Thursday, Tempo 3.2 miles @ 6:05 pace + 4 x 300 @ 53, 53, 53, 47. My top 2 guys are way more speed oriented than aerobically oriented and the 53s were run in an almost "holding back" fashion. When they went 47 on the last one, they looked just as easy. They were joined on the 300s by one of my 400/800 types who did his tempo @ 7:00 pace.
I'm thinking of a 16:25 goal for the top 2 guys, if we get to race, on a fair course like Woodward Park. If we run on one of the faster 5k courses this year, maybe low 16s. -
Sounds like an 800m runner who is involved in CC.
Great that he has fast runners to assist on the intervals.
I offer the following as some kind of measure:
Freshman
I ran 12:16 to win the gym class 2-mile, and a 63 for 2nd in the 440y. (1st was my best friend, who ran 53 on that dirt and sand track). Standing start, training shoes for all.
Summer: started training with team
Sophomore
Late Sep: ran 2.98 miles time trial 16:11, missed making varsity by 3 secconds.
Mid Oct--team went 1,2,3 in fesh-soph conference: : I was 3rd at 5:13 mile pace for 2.5 miles
mid-Jan: my first race for 800m: 2:13.5 indoors.
Mid-Apr: 2:05.9 split on 2-mile relay in invitational (at that time, only invitationals had such relays). My best friend ran 2:00 half anchor.
Mid-May: 10:04 2-mile, 4:35.9 mile in fresh-soph conference (1st for both races).
One week later: 9:55 2-mile in district off of 4:46 first mile.
If I had raced half instead of longer distances, I would have run about 2:01 in fresh-soph conference. But varsity half-milers were good enough, but only the junior 2-miler was good (9:06 in district), so I got to run varsity. My best friend ran also ran as a soph in the district, in the 440y (or the mile relay, I can't remember). -
Test him on it in a week.
Somewhere between 4:40-4:45, my guess. 5:00 is pretty impressive for the last mile - making it harder to guess.
If it was an even split 10:34 I would think more like a 4:55, give or take. -
4:45/10:20
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The closing splits of 2:36/2:24 at the end of a 3200m, in addition to the good speed for his age at 24/56 tell me that he can run 4:35 now. He basically ran that pace for the last lap of a 3200m trial.
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Update.
Since we ran out TT, to close out our "Fall Season", He's been running pretty consistently 35-40 mpw (but dropped down around 20 during the holidays). We've been focusing on becoming better at tempo running and we've tried to keep 1 speed development session per week as well. Back in late november he did 6:08 pace for 20 minutes. He's able to comfortably hold that pace for 30 minutes now and a couple of weeks ago came through 5k in 18:03 on a 20 min tempo (which he said ended up actually being quite a bit harder than tempo)
This week's key sessions:
M: 8 miles with 10 x 1 min CV effort, 1 min easy inserted in the last 4 miles
Th: 1200 wu ,Core, 4.5 mile tempo @ 27:55 (6:11 pace, crazy strong wind that day)
F: 1200, WU, Drills, Strides, 4 x 50m acceleration (building to close to top speed) 4 miles easy run at 7:30 pace, 3 x 150, full recovery (19 low, 19 low, 18 high). He shut the last one down about 30m from the finish and still was comfortably under 19 seconds.
He told me his goals for track season are Sub 2:00 and Sub 4:30. I'm thinking he's making pretty good progress. We'll start bringing some relaxed 400s back into the training mix pretty soon and probably turn the tempo runs into CV intervals on our CC course.
We do have some sort of abbreviated CC season coming up, but it's going to be really low key. We're restricted to competing only in our county and have formed a temporary league with the other small schools in our county. -
Great.
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Pretty good week.
Mon: 12 x 400 @ 76-77, 75 seconds standing recovery
Wed: Speed development day. Wickets, Dot Drills, Stadium Ramps
Thu: 5 x 1200 CV on SLOOOW cross country loop 60 seconds recovery (4:28, 4:30, 4:32, 4:30, 4:00)
Sat: 4.5 mile tempo @ 6:12 pace + 4 x 200 full recovery (29, 31, 32, 31)
Mileage for the week will end up in mid 40s.
We finally have been cleared to compete here in CA and we have a schedule (albeit, very limited) for cross country. Finding quality competition this spring may be kind of tough. Our league disbanded due to Covid travel restrictions (we're spread out over 3 counties) and we re-formed a league with the other small schools from our county. There are really only 1-2 other decent boys in the new league and I've been told by our superintendent that we cannot schedule out of league competition even if it is within the same county. Hopefully that rule changes.
First competition Feb 25, final competition March 25. Then 3 weeks before we start track on April 19. Cross country races will be treated as base building workouts
No LR this week and the speed development day was pretty light since this was the first week with 3 actual quality sessions. We'll probably drop back to only 2 or even 1 Q session for a while.
This week coming up will probably go.
M: Fartlek inserted into 60 minute run.
W: Speed development (probably fly ins or something like that)
Th: 5-6k of 400s or 500s at estimated 2 mile race pace, 1:1 recovery
Sat: Long
