Should I give up on the 800m and go back to sprints?

Did you run the 2:16 as a solo time trial?

No, it was a race.

One guy ran 2'09s and another was just in front of me in 2'14s, so I chased as hard as I could.

Even in the final 100m I felt like easing off but I really pushed and gave it my all.

Seems to me like there's room for improving something like around 2 sec on your 400m, 5 sec on your 600m, and 10 sec on your 800m.

If your 400m training has not included some early/mid season hard repeats of 400-800m and some mid/late season fast 4 x 300m 5' rest (top athletes, 10' rest) workouts, that could be part of the solution. Tempo 200's are great also, progressing from 10 reps early season down to 6 reps late season, always 3' rest (top athletes 2') with speed increasing as reps decrease.

If your 800m training has not included cruise intervals and mid/late season workouts with hard repeats of 300-600m, that could be part of the solution. Season-long sets of 200m repeats, at or slightly faster than date race pace, are great also; 3 sets of 4 (beginners, 2 sets / top athletes, 4 sets but only if consistent pace can be maintained) with 1' between reps and 5' between sets.

I suggest these ideas because if you are relying on top end speed, and training for endurance, then it's possible to miss out on the above.

Also, at 45, maybe only 2 hard days per week.

And - it may take some time to develop aerobically for the 800m. Some guys with 54 speed are able to run sub 2 eventually.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thanks Sub-8 Mile

Our season just started but I was definitely more prepared for an 800m this season than a 400m last season, so my 400m should still have more potential to improve above my 800m potential.

But the thing I was wondering that you mention is, is it just a matter of more time?

I would have thought 7 months of work to improve my aerobic ability would have improved my 800m more than it did.

Even if I can get down to 2'10s for the 800m, I wouldn't be satisfied with that and really want to be sub 2'05 for the amount of work required.

I don't care if it takes another couple of years, but don't really want to put the work in if it's a pointless exercise and would rather train more specifically for the 400m instead.

How long should I persist with the 800, if at all?

Or, should I just train for both the 400m and 800m?

Yes, go back to the sprints. 54 seconds is much better than 2:21 800 and better than 1:35 for 600. Furthermore with 12s flat you can run maybe 1 second faster for a 400, depending if it's FAT

One thing I can say is that sprint training, for me at least, was so much less demanding in time and effort than mid distance training.

I don't mind doing the hard stuff and putting work in, but only if it will produce positive results.

No point flogging a dead horse.

Do You Even Lift? wrote:

One thing I can say is that sprint training, for me at least, was so much less demanding in time and effort than mid distance training.

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That's for everyone . 800 meter is an event which you have to keep balancing out speed and endurance. You have to do a long run one day and a few days later get ready for a 400 - 800 meter workout.

I would do just the 200 and below if I were you. The older you get the less muscle you're going to have thus making it too diffulcult to run the 800. And the more you train for the 800 or even the 400 the less muscle you're going to develop, so I would stick with powerlifting and 200 meter dash training and below.

Do you need much muscle for the 800m?

I deliberately lost almost 20lbs of lean muscle in the past 12 months to get faster, and I did get a bit faster, was 5.4% body fat too, so it was all muscle, mostly upper body.

I really don't think gaining more muscle will make me faster as I've had it before, although could get it back quite fast.

I'm just not quick enough in the 100m.....

200 is probably a bit better and should be able to go 23 something.

Might just try the 400m hurdles for something new to keep progressing, then probably do a full circle and cycle through a range of distances again....I don't know.

Maybe I should become a multi eventer, not specialising in anything in particular....

You're doing fine. Keep going. Your times will keep improving. Aim for 2 minutes or under. Don't train too hard.

You may be more of a fast-twitch guy and no amount of "aerobic" training will get you below 2:05 but there's only one way to find out and right now what you are calling aerobic work is far from what I consider optimal. Look up Peter Snell training.

What training have you been doing?

parkerjohn wrote:

You may be more of a fast-twitch guy and no amount of "aerobic" training will get you below 2:05 but there's only one way to find out and right now what you are calling aerobic work is far from what I consider optimal. Look up Peter Snell training.

How the heck would you know how fast he can run?

Your times would easily medal at USATF masters for your age category in the 200 and 400. You are at least 6 seconds off for the 800 (I have coached medalists in all these events at that level).

Keep in mind that "one off" races won't realize your potential. Pick a focus event (200 or 400 is what I would recommend) and race or TT it every week as lead up to a championship, after developing proper base and pre-comp phases.

Most of all have fun and stay healthy, train with a group and a competent coach if at all feasible. And hills...hills are your strongest personal ally especially in all pre-competitive phases, use them well and use them often, in all available forms. Mileage and long runs are pretty much superfluous for an athlete like yourself. Maybe some biking and walking in base phase or very slow soft-surface jogs to minimize impact.

I guess I will add that I personally have a national silver medal in that category for the 800 as well. My training was for the 8/15 though, with a bests of 25.7/55.9/2:06.4/4:19.

How long should it take ... and how long should you persist ...

I think it partially depends on what your training has been. Did your aerobic training exclusively consist of a lot of easy runs, or did it also include the harder stuff that takes more discipline, such as long hill repeats, tempo runs, cruise intervals? If just easy runs, then I think you may massively improve within several months of adding these sessions; more so over 2 years.

I'd say it also depends on what works for you. As an example, at 30 I started consistently training again for the first time since college. I had time for just 10 mi/week. After a year of training, I began my 800m season and started out with 2:19. 10-12 weeks later, I was down to 2:04.5. Nothing amazing, esp as young as 31, but it was on minimal training and it just happened to tie my 2nd best HS time so I felt good about it.

That's not exactly the same as where you are right now, of course. Different ages & training; also different running backgrounds. But just to give you an idea -- sometimes it's possible to dramatically improve over a season if your training pre-season was more general prep work and wasn't overly specific.

Right now, I do think your 400/600/800 are progressively soft (I mean that analytically, not attacking), which to me says that with more tempo/VO2max/speed endurance/special endurance training plus 1-3 years, it's possible to see significant improvement. 400 vs 800? Hard to say.

The other question is, what training will you enjoy? What distance will you want to compete at? And, have you considered 1500, where you could become aerobically fitter over time, which would allow you to stay with leaders and then use you speed for a strong kick?

Best of luck. We're the same age btw. Maybe I'll see you at a masters meet sometime.

What kind of endurance training have you been doing?

1. Are your times FAT?

2. What were your 800 splits?

3. Some of the advice and time extrapolations should be ignored.

Congrats on your sprint times! Without more info about your mid distance training it will be hard to deduce the reason for the fall-off between your 400-600-800. You should be able to run under 1:30 for 600m with a 54 second 400. 54+41 is absurd. You're either pacing incorrectly or not doing enough mid distance training.

Your 600 should be run closer to a 400 in terms of pacing and effort. Get out about the same distance and elongate the rest of the phases of your race. I used to joke that running a 600 is just a 400 with a 200m cool down.

The 800 is a tough nut crack. Go out too fast and you'll blow up. Go out too slow and you'll get left behind. Plus your reserve won't make up for dawdling early. It's going to take multiple cracks to run an ideal 800.