Starting marathon after high school instead of running in college?

bad at shorter distances wrote:

So I'm 18 and I'm considering whether to run in college or not. I'm bad at anything under 1500m, I'm not bad at races between 1500m-6000m but I'm not good at them either. Comparatively I'm better at longer distances; so far my longest race has been a half marathon. Would it be completely stupid to not run on a college club/team and just train for marathons instead (assuming that I had a decent training plan, obviously)?

yes, completely stupid, unless you can sign a six figure professional contract.

What are your PRs?

I bet 5k and below are significantly stronger, unless you’ve been doing 70+mpw the past 4 years.

You just think you better longer distances because you get beaten badly at high school meets, whereas in road races you finish much higher up in the rankings (cuz of all them dastardly hobbyj*ggers, hehe). The overall average level of competition between local road races and HS meets is in no way comparable.

I admit I am simply guessing, but I suspect you don’t have an idea about what equivalent performances between middle and longer distances look like.

Lastly, to answer your question, if you actually want to be good over the marathon distance, you’re going to want to have made some attempt to maximize your speed over shorter distances (5k, 10k). There might be some exceptions, but if you suck at those distances there will be significant limitations to what you can achieve in the marathon.

Yeah I'm not really sure about equivalent performances, I just kind of guessed based on how I placed in competitions in different distances and I tend to place a lot higher in longer distance events. My PRs are 5:01 (1500m), 10:42 (3000m), and 18:14 (5000m) (for reference, I'm a girl, and all of these times were in high school races). The past 2 years my mileage has been 65-75mpw over the summer and 45-50mpw in season.

I've never raced an official half marathon but I've done solo time trials and my best time from those was 1:27:12 on a 7-loop route with 2 bigger hills. I've never had a coach for any distance over 5000m so the "training" I did for the halfs was basically just my normal 5000m workouts with extra mileage added in, and also sometimes random workouts I found on the internet (and yes I know that's a terrible plan). I just kind of thought that my half times seemed better than my other distances, and that if I actually trained for a half/full marathon properly and then ran in an actual race that it might go better than if I kept running 5000m/6000m when I go to college.

Your times are pretty solid. However, even as a girl, you’re a far cry from capitalizing on running financially.

I’m a bit out of the loop to know if an 18:14 5000M gets you a scholarship anywhere, but I’m guessing not. However, it seems you’re good enough to walk on at a small school. I think you’d benefit from a good college coach surrounded by faster runners to push you.

However, it’s your life. If you just want to run on your own and run the marathon, there’s nothing wrong with that.

if youre 18 and going for marathon its not a good sign. The truth is that you need to work on your weakness in order to improve all aspects of your running.

Over the years, parents of 11 or 12 year old sub-40 10K runners say they are going to keep their kids from participating in school XC and T&F. Train their kids instead to be a road racer. It never works out.

There is scant evidence that by-passing college XC and college T&F is a formula for success. There have been some from Ethiopia, Kenya and Uganda who chose that path. They also had 250 to 1000 generations of heritage born and raised at 5000ft. plus elevation.

Fifteen-hundred metres speed is important for Marathoners. Elite Marathons usually race Marathon 32 to 37 times 1500m PB or 1500m capability. Eg., men like Rod Dixon and Mohammed Farah race or raced Marathon app. 37 times 1500m PB. Men like Al Sal and Frank Shorter raced Marathon closer to 32 times 1500m PB or 1500m capability. Eliud Kipchoge races Marathon in the middle of 32 to 37 times 1500m range.

Oh yeah I get that, I'm not looking to make running a career or anything. I've just been wanting to try a marathon and I'm not sure if it's too soon to start training for that right after high school.

I never really considered that the speed aspect of shorter races plays a lot into marathons, and that's a really good point, thank you. I'm starting to get the impression that I should do track and probably also XC even if it's at club level just for the emphasis on speed in shorter distances. Thanks!

Yes

It makes sense for you to train for and race the marathon now if that’s what you want to do.

You should run in college if you were planning on attending/can attend college for academic reasons! Your times are very good. Your 3200m is Very good you could walk onto almost any d1 school and possibly get significant scholarship at mid-major type schools. If you have good grades you could probably get close to a full scholarship between grades and running at a d2/NAIA school and maybe even a lower d1. Running in college will help with the marathon.

Option 2 you could run for a Junior College in the NJCAA, there is a half marathon championship after xc season... I believe NAIA schools also participate in the marathon and a championship event. So you can definitely find a college program to run at and likely be successful.

https://www.njcaa.org/sports/wxc/whalf/2019-20/national_championship/index

Top 4 women at NJCAA half championships ran under 1.21 as a reference.

1:27 HM on a hilly TT is intrinsically better than your other results. Your ability to handle decent mileage suggests that the marathon might be a good fit (and even trail ultras eventually). Marathons should give you better options in the near future considering the way that covid has scrambled college schedules. Also intersperse other races as they come along. Even a decent 1500, and certainly 5-10K, is possible off of marathon training.

I say go for it. I ran six marathons from my senior year in HS to the end of college, and although I never ran another in competition, I never regretted the (sometimes painful) lessons I learned.

yes college wrote:

You should run in college if you were planning on attending/can attend college for academic reasons!

I'm here. You can run marathons your whole life, but college running only when you are in college.

There is nothing wrong with running marathons at 18, I just think you are fast enough to have a better option.

Star wrote:

Yes

It makes sense for you to train for and race the marathon now if that’s what you want to do.

Funny that this far down the page is the first decent opinion. It totally makes sense and in my opinion is probably better than the college scene. Here's why there is resistance to the idea:

I'm not sure when this started, but there is a notion among American runners that anyone who can run for a school-affiliated team must do so. It is considered wrong in the court of public opinion to run unattached while in high school and to a lesser extent for the several years afterward also. This was not always the case. When I was in high school, road racing including marathons were popular among teenagers. Now, this was 40 years ago, and those in my age group or older can confirm this, amateur road races were faster and deeper than now. Your local 10k was often won under 30 minutes. Not saying this is impressive in the least for a male pro, but I am saying it is faster than the Tecumseh Turkey Trot is now.

There were reasons for this. Perhaps first among them was Shorter's Olympic exploits, and although I am slightly too young for him to be the guy we identified with or wanted to emulate, the resulting running boom was in full force when I started at around 14. So not only were women's winners often in the 2:40s and men's in the 2:20s at pretty random marathons (i.e., not the ones where big-time pros went but rather events where no runners lived further than a few hours drive), but the 17-and-under field was deep as well. I went well under 3 hours and not only finished out of the top-3 medals but sometimes behind the girls winner in the same age group. That depth simply doesn't exist today. There are not marathons in the US these days which pay no appearance fees nor prize money (so I'm leaving the famous races out, keep in mind) in which a dozen teenagers, girls included, break 3.

So why bring that up? Anyone older than 50 here knows that if they were running back then. Because if it was OK then, it is now. No one's growth was stunted. In fact, the United States was one of the leading lights of distance running. Maybe you rooted for Bill Rodgers in marathons and Herb Lindsey at shorter stuff like my peers and I or whoever the stars were a few years later, depending on your age. That's who we were trying to be. Of course, not everybody ends up winning Boston or Peachtree, but there were young runners back then whose goals were just that, as opposed to winning NCAA championships. My training partners never mentioned collegiate running. I mean, I guess we intellectually knew it existed, but it wasn't really on our radars. The goal of the slow-twitch whose best events were 10k and up (this includes both you and I) was road racing and we were already doing exactly that.

I'm not sure when that whole culture changed, but it most certainly did. Some theories why might include the low-mileage 90s - and look at the sad state of American distance running at the turn of the century. The popular training done by pros does affect the masses because even pre-internet it was possible to read what the stars were doing. I got up to around 80mpw in high school (although could really only sustain more like 70) and that wasn't considered all that much. Rodgers did twice that!

I think a more significant cause of the lack of acceptance of what I did and you are contemplating is parenting. My parents and those of my friends (these people were born in the '30s) did not discourage long distance running and racing in any way. In fact, they would drive us to races including marathons just like other parents might go to soccer or baseball games. My dad drove 4 of us, all from the same school and in the same grade (that wasn't even everyone in our class doing a full 'thon that year) to one of my favorite marathons. I just don't know if today's parents would allow that kind of thing. The parents of those getting out of college now are likely around my age, so it's ironic that my own generation may have ruined the whole situation I have described. Unattached running may not seem meaningful to parents. It is 'just' running as opposed to competing for the school like your brother and sister on the soccer team. No chaperone is present. The school's insurance doesn't cover anything. It seems random and meaningless to many.

Whether or not parental pressure is a big player in the attitude exhibited in this thread, it is clear that peer pressure is huge in these matters. If I was 30 or 40 years younger I would have had an uphill battle with the other kids at school who were interested in running. I'm not sure if things are settled with fists much these days (hopefully not) but that's how it would have been back when I was in school. Fortunately my friends ran too - and not for the school track team. I can even imagine a coach calling my parents to pressure me to join a team. I am fortunate not to have had such pressure to deal with but you can rest assured that it exists today.

So the real reason the masses here on the Board are telling you that you must run for a high school team, then a college team, and then road racing is acceptable only after all eligibility is exhausted, is simple:

It is what they did. Their parents, peers, coaches, or whoever, insisted they do it, they did it, they expect you to do the same. Conformity is valued. Thinking outside the box is offensive to some. Many of them offer their opinions right here in your thread.

YMMV wrote:

1:27 HM on a hilly TT is intrinsically better than your other results. Your ability to handle decent mileage suggests that the marathon might be a good fit (and even trail ultras eventually). Marathons should give you better options in the near future considering the way that covid has scrambled college schedules. Also intersperse other races as they come along. Even a decent 1500, and certainly 5-10K, is possible off of marathon training.

I say go for it. I ran six marathons from my senior year in HS to the end of college, and although I never ran another in competition, I never regretted the (sometimes painful) lessons I learned.

Right on, another good piece of advice. Go for it and ignore the naysayers. By the way, there are several errors in some of those negative posts. First of all, open road races have got to be faster than the high school-sanctioned events. I mean, isn't there at least one dude going 5-flat for 5k in every town? Sure, there are huge crowds at 10-flat pace, but the winning time in a girls 5k has got to be beaten by a 30 year old woman at many races.

Next, someone accused the OP of running a 3200. I'd be bummed if someone suggested I had done so, not primarily because it is out of my wheelhouse (too short) but because it is not a standard event. You can't tell me what a World Record is for the 3200m because their isn't one.

Another poster mentioned collegiate running as 'a better option' than unattached road racing. Is being mediocre at mid-D events really 'a better option' than excellence at the events a particular athlete is best suited for? The NCAA offers 10k, so maybe that's not the best statement on the topic, so how about being subject to a coach who has no idea what you respond to. Is following a cookie-cutter program or worse yet, whatever works for the star of the squad 'a better option' than a program ideally suited to you?

bad at shorter distances wrote:

I never really considered that the speed aspect of shorter races plays a lot into marathons, and that's a really good point, thank you. I'm starting to get the impression that I should do track and probably also XC even if it's at club level just for the emphasis on speed in shorter distances. Thanks!

There is very little difference between 5/10k training and marathon training in the base phases. Just keep on working on upping the miles and doing more quality aerobic work. Maybe you do a 2 hour run instead of 90mins every other week if you are doing a marathon instead of 10k.

Personally I would try to do XC/track for the first 2 years. Work on building that mileage and get some more racing experience. After that you can still decide if you want to do college track or start doing road races.

You don't say what your academic interests or capabilities are, but those times would be highly sought after by most Division III schools. Some of them are among the top academic schools in the country. The athletic vibe is certainly more low-key that at D-I schools where running is essentially your job if you're on scholarship.

Tuition is sky-high, but need-based aid is plentiful.

Look at conference meet results from D-III schools if you're interested to see where your times would land you. Then decide if that kind of small, liberal arts–college education is what you want and can afford. It won't hurt to write to the coaches. Most of them are very friendly and helpful.

I would agree with a couple who have said, why not try a marathon? It's not an either/or decision. Enjoy your life and running. Good luck!

That's actually a really helpful perspective, thank you! I don't know very much about when marathons became popular and I wasn't aware that a lot of HS/college runners used to be a lot more involved. It's weird how drastically that changed and also kind of disappointing. I think that the decrease in participation might contribute to more people running on collegiate teams; maybe it's not as much about conformity but more about predictability/stability? Like if you run in college most schools have clubs/teams, so it's pretty easy to get into it, but there isn't really a set path for HS/college runners to get into marathons so most people just take the clearer path and run on collegiate teams.

In any case this was really helpful, thanks!

Sorry I probably should've clarified this earlier, but I'm not going to college in America (can't afford it, and I have citizenship in another country where the school options fit my career path better); the colleges still have XC and track, and the teams are really good, but there are less colleges than in America so I'm guessing that getting onto a team is harder/more competitive. I'll still definitely try to talk to the coaches though, thank you!