How many years of training would it take a sedentary 18 year old male to break 16 minutes in the 5k?

I love the way you think outside the box from everybody else here. ive brought this up in other threads, but especially weak runners need a different kind of plan than average and above average kids. even slightly below average kids are fine.

if you are an especially slow and weak runner, there are things you need to fix that slow mileage is not going to work for. There are many, many kids who are not strong enough (aerobically or neuromuscularly) to run longer than a mile without jacking the heart rate. throw in some hills, and they have no chance.

I do think that sprint training, building towards middle distance type training can help these issues with a lot of people. In fact, good old fashioned periodization is neglected way too much even by some decent hobby joggers.

I don't think that a theoretical male who is at the median in every dimension is capable of a 16:00 5k, regardless of training.

However, the theoretically median kid who goes out for the cross country team in high school probably is. People self-select for sports they might have some promise in.

Take the theoretical median kid who goes out for high school cross country. Then put him in a hypothetical situation where he's sedentary until age 18 (e.g. a gamer). I think he could get down to 16:00 in about 3 consistent years of smart, consistent training and recovery.

my2c wrote:

I don't think that a theoretical male who is at the median in every dimension is capable of a 16:00 5k, regardless of training.

However, the theoretically median kid who goes out for the cross country team in high school probably is. People self-select for sports they might have some promise in.

Take the theoretical median kid who goes out for high school cross country. Then put him in a hypothetical situation where he's sedentary until age 18 (e.g. a gamer). I think he could get down to 16:00 in about 3 consistent years of smart, consistent training and recovery.

good runners self select cross country. but a lot of the team is also self selecting based on it is the only sport they have the opportunity to try. football and soccer have limited team sizes and specific skills and athletic abilities that are desired.

Many cross teams will take any nerd that is willing to show everyday to jog/walk.

david45 wrote:

thiscupisnthaflfull wrote:

Can you come off the couch and run a sub-18? sub-17 5K? If the answer is no, which it is, you're not talented.

But most of us aren't talented like that anyway.

One of the most depressing and sad parts of life is that your body determines your destiny. You can't fight genetics. I will never become a fast runner. It is hard to accept that.

If your body has functional vision, hearing, and mobility, you are blessed. There are many people who won't ever have those things.

Your whining is tiresome.

hobbyjogging old lady wrote:

david45 wrote:

One of the most depressing and sad parts of life is that your body determines your destiny. You can't fight genetics. I will never become a fast runner. It is hard to accept that.

If your body has functional vision, hearing, and mobility, you are blessed. There are many people who won't ever have those things.

Your whining is tiresome.

Excellent! Just excellent!

my2c wrote:

I don't think that a theoretical male who is at the median in every dimension is capable of a 16:00 5k, regardless of training.

However, the theoretically median kid who goes out for the cross country team in high school probably is. People self-select for sports they might have some promise in.

Take the theoretical median kid who goes out for high school cross country. Then put him in a hypothetical situation where he's sedentary until age 18 (e.g. a gamer). I think he could get down to 16:00 in about 3 consistent years of smart, consistent training and recovery.

The median kid who actually does go out for cross country and trains throughout high school doesn't come close to 16:00. I don't think putting him on the couch for a few years will change that.

Just an anecdote:

Four years ago, during my sophomore year of high school, I began running. When I started that summer, I could barely run 3 miles in 30 minutes, but I stuck with it and ended XC season with a 5K PR under 24 minutes. Flash forward to senior year of high school, and I was running 18:4x for XC 5K’s and ended up going sub-5 and sub-11 in the 1600m and 3200m. I was too slow to run on my college team, but I loved running too much to quit. I ran 60-70 miles per week (up from 30-40 as a senior) for a solid year and ended up banging out a mid-16’s 5K and mid-35’s 10K in time trials back in March. No XC races this fall for me to compete in as an unattached athlete, but my workouts lately indicate sub-27 8K shape. I’ve now got my sights set on a sub-16 5K/sub-33 10K in the spring.

All this to say: if I started out running 10:00 miles and got here, there can be no excuses. It’s the trial of miles and miles of trials that mold you into the best runner you can be be.

Except when you are injury prone, so you can do the trials of miles and miles and the trials that mold you into a better runner.

To be fair, I did have good luck with avoiding injury; however, I believe that was because I made sure to attend to the ancillary work required to stay strong while building mileage. Hip, glute, and core strength exercises, along with lots of push-ups are essential. Once you've got a handle on that, you can add in a weight routine once or twice a week (probably low-weight, high-rep in nature). You also need to eat well and get plenty of sleep. All these things dramatically reduce injury-risk.

FormerSub5Hopeful_ wrote:

david45 wrote:

Except when you are injury prone, so you can do the trials of miles and miles and the trials that mold you into a better runner.

To be fair, I did have good luck with avoiding injury; however, I believe that was because I made sure to attend to the ancillary work required to stay strong while building mileage. Hip, glute, and core strength exercises, along with lots of push-ups are essential. Once you've got a handle on that, you can add in a weight routine once or twice a week (probably low-weight, high-rep in nature). You also need to eat well and get plenty of sleep. All these things dramatically reduce injury-risk.

That doesn't work for me. During XC summer training last year, I did dynamic exercises for warm-ups, stretches after runs, hip mobility, a ton of core workouts, push-ups, and so much more. I slept 8 hours per day and ate healthy. Yet I got a freakin stress fracture.

david45 wrote:

FormerSub5Hopeful_ wrote:

To be fair, I did have good luck with avoiding injury; however, I believe that was because I made sure to attend to the ancillary work required to stay strong while building mileage. Hip, glute, and core strength exercises, along with lots of push-ups are essential. Once you've got a handle on that, you can add in a weight routine once or twice a week (probably low-weight, high-rep in nature). You also need to eat well and get plenty of sleep. All these things dramatically reduce injury-risk.

That doesn't work for me. During XC summer training last year, I did dynamic exercises for warm-ups, stretches after runs, hip mobility, a ton of core workouts, push-ups, and so much more. I slept 8 hours per day and ate healthy. Yet I got a freakin stress fracture.

I did all of the injury prevention stuff under the sun, yet STILL GOT INJURED

runnER/DR wrote:

4-3 Thirty wrote:

I do think a 4:32 mile / 9:50 2 mile / 16:00 5K is possible for about 35-50% of men “if” they fully dedicate to all aspects of athleticism needed to run a good 3000m time.

However, it takes discipline in many areas of life and training to do it. The other 50% of men may be naturally built like a lineman... or have chronic injuries... or lack a robust endocrine system... or flaws with their nervous system.

You actually believe this!? So you're saying any high school coach can take a team with 40 random boys and have 20 of them run under 4:30? Seriously? You are so far off. Running under 4:30 is unusual. It doesn't require freakish talent, but a tiny fraction of HS athletes will get under and you're already dealing with selection bias in that group of kids.

Yes. Without hesitation. Some athletes may need beyond high school to make it due to puberty (Hormones), growth injuries, etc...

Do you believe: You could not get 35/100 males to 15:59 for 5000, if they were assigned, and cooperative, to a training program - and lifestyle (no butterfly-bandaid parents, healthy eating is a given, time for weight training, world class plyometric / drills instruction, good nutrition). Your training window is age 12-22.

Are you all adamant that 15:59 is that demanding under the conditions I have outlined? Only 35 / 100 need to make it.

How do you even know this so called injury was running related?

Did you avoid getting mad at your mom and kicking a brick wall? That would probably cause a foot injury.

I EAT WELL!

Eats chicken bread and bananas every day and drinks a can of soda (empty calories) every other day.

I SLEEP WELL!

Sits on his computer and spams various social media every day until well past midnight.

I DO STRENGTH TRAINING!

Body still lacks basic physical strength as evidenced by his 20 pushups to failure and 0 pullups.

There you go.