Todd Williams
Todd Williams
Dr. Pepper wrote:
Todd Williams
Not sure if he is officially a sub 4:00 guy;) but he has posted workouts of him doing
1600-1200-800-400 with 3 minutes rest between each rep and he split 4:05, 3:03, 2:00, and :56
Want to bet that he gets down sub 54 when he hasn't done that hard work right before and off that runs like a 26 or so?
Or for another slow guy lets look at a Ritz workout
3 x 600m, 400m, 300m, 200m with 300m recovery averaging 1:27, 57, 41, 26. 3 mile cool down
Want to bet that he would be down around 52 if he wasn't doing a workout off those 300s and 200s?
malmo wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Where do I start with this nonsense. You don't double your 200m time to get your 400m. Otherwise the world record would be under 40
Surprised Bolt didn't beat his world records by doing a few flat out laps first.
Now that is dumb!
You still don't get it.
Comparing the WRs isn't the same as comparing PRs of runners who are nowhere that fast. There are runners will frequently be able to run their 400 best at or near their 200 best. Those are the runners who are relevant here.
This thread isn't about the fastest 200 times to break 4:00, its about the slowest 200 times to break 4:00. What the 200 and 400 WRs are is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
No you don't get it you can't run 400m at your 200m race pace. How many of the athletes you know actually did a 200m race. Not a 200m tagged onto the end of a training session
malmo wrote:
rekrunner, not quite 4:00, but Cliff West has run 10.3 in the 100 meters, 20.9 in the 200 meters, 3:44 for 1,500 meters, 4:02 in the mile. The sprint times came five years AFTER the 1500/mile.
That is interesting.
Yes not quite 4:00, but close enough.
Those are pretty decent times for 100m and 200m for a nearly 4:00 miler.
All of these performances are roughly equivalent on the Purdy scale -- something I would not expect from 100m to 1 mile.
That would put his 400m at 47s and 800m at 1m48s.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
malmo wrote:
You still don't get it.
Comparing the WRs isn't the same as comparing PRs of runners who are nowhere that fast. There are runners will frequently be able to run their 400 best at or near their 200 best. Those are the runners who are relevant here.
This thread isn't about the fastest 200 times to break 4:00, its about the slowest 200 times to break 4:00. What the 200 and 400 WRs are is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
No you don't get it you can't run 400m at your 200m race pace. How many of the athletes you know actually did a 200m race. Not a 200m tagged onto the end of a training session
Have you learned nothing in all the years you've been posting here? Bekele is a case in point of what he is trying to tell you.
This is not unusual for a distance runner. Do you even understand the simple arithmetic?
malmo oughta know wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
No you don't get it you can't run 400m at your 200m race pace. How many of the athletes you know actually did a 200m race. Not a 200m tagged onto the end of a training session
Have you learned nothing in all the years you've been posting here? Bekele is a case in point of what he is trying to tell you.
This is not unusual for a distance runner. Do you even understand the simple arithmetic?
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
Ask the guys ... wrote:
malmo oughta know wrote:
Have you learned nothing in all the years you've been posting here? Bekele is a case in point of what he is trying to tell you.
This is not unusual for a distance runner. Do you even understand the simple arithmetic?
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
You don't understand distance running.
malmo oughta know wrote:
Ask the guys ... wrote:
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
You don't understand distance running.
I know athletes who race 1500m and longer events as did Malmo never train for 200m dash. I do not want to here about 50 yard or 50 metre sprints or hill sessions. I can guarantee that Malmo was not in film sessions reviewing his sprinting form on super slow mo. Btw., what makes you believe I was not a XC runner, junior high school through college?
malmo ran 3.40 for 1500 with low 26 200m speed.
Are you people trying to tell him that you know more about his own running career than he does?
He wrote earlier in the thread that he ran 25.4 in training once.
malmo oughta know wrote:
You don't understand distance running.
Again, it would be good to tone down the aggression. It is a basic metabolic and mechanical fact that absolutely anybody can sprint significantly faster than their mile pace, including a pure endurance type. Metabolically, you have the anaerobic system which in absolutely anybody can power you significantly faster than you can run aerobically over a short period of time. Mechanically, absolutely anybody can drive their body with their arms, etc, much more powerfully over a short distance than they would in a mile. Together, these things are worth around 4 seconds at least over 200m in anybody, and much more in the vast majority of people.
malmo oughta know wrote:
malmo ran 3.40 for 1500 with low 26 200m speed.
Are you people trying to tell him that you know more about his own running career than he does?
We all know Malmo's 1500m & 3000m SC personal bests. You are digging in for some reason. We all also know: Malmo did not train from age 12 to age 22 as a 200m specialist. I am not going to list all 200m training that we all know Malmo did not do. I have been around the gals & guys who believe they are endurance monsters. They say they are all out sprinting when they race 800m. Most the time I do not argue but I know they are not actually all out sprinting in 800m. When Malmo stated he all out sprints 400 at same speed at 200m and other elite guys do, I know they have never trained for 200m. You know Malmo never trained for 200m or 400m. You are being belligerent for no good reason.
Off the line sub 54 rather than jog into it sub 54? Who knows. I just gave an example of an endurance beast who might fit the profile.
Ask the guys ... wrote:
malmo oughta know wrote:
malmo ran 3.40 for 1500 with low 26 200m speed.
Are you people trying to tell him that you know more about his own running career than he does?
We all know Malmo's 1500m & 3000m SC personal bests. You are digging in for some reason. We all also know: Malmo did not train from age 12 to age 22 as a 200m specialist. I am not going to list all 200m training that we all know Malmo did not do. I have been around the gals & guys who believe they are endurance monsters. They say they are all out sprinting when they race 800m. Most the time I do not argue but I know they are not actually all out sprinting in 800m. When Malmo stated he all out sprints 400 at same speed at 200m and other elite guys do, I know they have never trained for 200m. You know Malmo never trained for 200m or 400m. You are being belligerent for no good reason.
I will just repeat that you don't understand distance running. You just dont. No amount of explanation will satisfy you.
I respect malmo's answer to the OP question. Let him explain it to you. But you will just argue.
So answer me this: what is the slowest maximum Velocity that the best trained distance runner needs to break 4 for the mile? I'll give you a clue. It's less than 8 meters per second.
Now extrapolate a speed decline curve for Kenenisa Bekele?
Ask the guys ... wrote:
malmo oughta know wrote:
malmo ran 3.40 for 1500 with low 26 200m speed.
Are you people trying to tell him that you know more about his own running career than he does?
We all know Malmo's 1500m & 3000m SC personal bests. You are digging in for some reason. We all also know: Malmo did not train from age 12 to age 22 as a 200m specialist. I am not going to list all 200m training that we all know Malmo did not do. I have been around the gals & guys who believe they are endurance monsters. They say they are all out sprinting when they race 800m. Most the time I do not argue but I know they are not actually all out sprinting in 800m. When Malmo stated he all out sprints 400 at same speed at 200m and other elite guys do, I know they have never trained for 200m. You know Malmo never trained for 200m or 400m. You are being belligerent for no good reason.
Excuse me? What the hell does "training for sprints from age 12 to 22" have to do with this thread? The thread is titled "what's the slowest 200m required to run 4:00." I've run 25.4 and have run 3:40.2 for 1500m. When I ran 3:42.2 the fastest 200m I've run in the previous year (not including races) was 26.8. Those are the facts. Your fantasy wudda-cudda world doesn't matter.
My guess is that the slowest 200m needed for someone to break 4:00 in the mile is 26.5 to 27.0.
Ask the guys ... wrote:
malmo oughta know wrote:
Have you learned nothing in all the years you've been posting here? Bekele is a case in point of what he is trying to tell you.
This is not unusual for a distance runner. Do you even understand the simple arithmetic?
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
Sure it is, and for me it's been a constant. In high school my best 200/400 was 27.0 and 54.0 My best ever was 25.4 and 52.2. The important thing here is that I could run nearly as fast in races. The track world is full of runners with great speed who cannot kick. Those guys need better coaching.
malmo wrote:
Ask the guys ... wrote:
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
Sure it is, and for me it's been a constant. In high school my best 200/400 was 27.0 and 54.0 My best ever was 25.4 and 52.2. The important thing here is that I could run nearly as fast in races. The track world is full of runners with great speed who cannot kick. Those guys need better coaching.
No doubt you came to sport of Athletics a bit differently than I did Malmo. I am sure you are a Regular Runner, which means you came to sport of Athletics starting with XC then spring TC. From age 5 to 14. I started as a 220 yard guy. Your statements regarding you and your training partners regarding 200m/400m makes me think of 5k/10k hobby joggers who race 5k/10/k 25/49 or 30/49. They say they can race faster than their 5K pace for 10k, You and I know, they are not properly trained as 5k athletes. Malmo, you and I know, you were not properly trained as a 200m athlete.
Wow, no matter how wrong you are you are going to keep digging in deeper.
What the hell does being "properly trained" for a 200 have to do with this thread? Had I focused on 200/400 I wouldn't have been any faster and I would not have been successful at any event at all.
I started off in soccer, and then track in junior high, where I ran the 400 and eventually the 800. I was not competitive at 400m and was barely competitive at 800m. In the 9th grade I was 5th in the county Jr High 800. 2:13, and wasn't even close to the leaders.
Only when longer distances were available to me in high school did I flourish. Immediately, after enrolling in high school, 10th grade, I was 2nd in the county in XC, and in the spring I was 5th in the State in the 2 mile. There is no amount of sprint training that would have made competitive at any event less than 2 miles.
Trust me, none of my training partners were anywhere near "hobbyjoggers." In fact most of my peers were national and international caliber runners.
Ask the guys ... wrote:
I am not UK Coach.
I am not taking Malmo's word on 200m dash. It is impossible to maintain a full sprint for 400m.
Sprint is a funny word here.
Some might say that it is not possible to maintain a full sprint for more than 60m.
400m runners might draw that line at 300m.
800m runners might draw that line at 600m.
If we are talking about slow 200m runners breaking 4:00 for the mile, we are talking about guys with slow speed and high endurance.
These guys are not sprinters -- their 200m is more the result of slow twitch, much of which can be extended for longer.