Why do many here believe Jakob I is doping?

There are also former cross country skiers with similar and higher values from the same and neighboring countries

why would they make an exception for Jakob?

FinnJ wrote:

I could understand if you believe he is taking something else, but not epo, which many people here believe. Why is it so hard not to see that people have different genes? His father has hem 17,5+ with Jakob slightly lower. It shows us that the family got a rare genetic makeup or else his father is also doping

Oh! You are stating Jacob Ingebrigtsen is genetically superior. Physiologists measure T&F talent, more specifically track talent by 200m TT. List 200m personal bests of J. Ingebrigtsen's father, grandfathers, great grandfathers, mother, grandmothers and great grandmothers.

What is "Hem 17.5+" ?

I think Jakob is close to a gray line. Like Rupp was. This is completely different from Cheruiyot, Kiprop, Managoi, Cheptegi, and the rest over in the wild east. There you have unabridged access and use to EPO and other steroids.

Fnoob wrote:

What is "Hem 17.5+" ?

I think he's saying that the family naturally has relatively high hemoglobin.

superior genes, is that what you say? wrote:Physiologists measure T&F talent, more specifically track talent by 200m TT.

WTF?

I could bet my life on that Jakob and his brothers ( and sister) are clean. They have great talent given by genes and have done the work it takes to reach where they are.

I'd say it's pretty clear exceptions are being made for him by the majority of this forum's users. also, scroll down just past this thread and you see 'tim cheruyot doping' thread.

btw no one doubts he's a fine athlete with or without dat dere, just like everyone else at or near the top.

I think he's taken illegal performance enhancing drugs. That doesn't necessarily mean EPO.

reasonable middle of road wrote:

superior genes, is that what you say? wrote:Physiologists measure T&F talent, more specifically track talent by 200m TT.

WTF?

WTF what?

You did not know that physiologists measure track talent by 200 metre time trial?

Lol .Yes. Let's see Rupp's, Farah's, Kipchoge's, Cheptegei's, & Bekele's 200 time trials and compare.

Control substance wrote:

Lol .Yes. Let's see Rupp's, Farah's, Kipchoge's, Cheptegei's, & Bekele's 200 time trials and compare.

I am sure all guys you stated above were sub-28 200m guys at age 13. I am sure all were sub-25 200m guys at age 18. I am sure Jacob Inge. is a sub-25 200m lad. Are you making a point? A poster stated Jacob I. has superior genes. I doubt Jacob I's 200m ability is anything special. Since Jacob I. does not have superior genes, all that is left is: working smarter than others, working harder than others or Jacob I. is on the juice.

I dont think anyone should take it personally. But we've repeatedly been duped by dopers. To the point it seems more likely any world class athlete is doping than isn't.

He's better than me therefore he must be doping.

My fee-fees are hurt.

Elvin wrote:

Fnoob wrote:

What is "Hem 17.5+" ?

I think he's saying that the family naturally has relatively high hemoglobin.

Hemoglobin doesn't mean much. Sedentary I was high, around 16-17 and almost 50% HTC. With training, it got lower, and lower, and lower, and recently I measured the lowest values ever (~13 & 42%) despite being in the best shape/a lot faster.

Training increases blood volume, so relative HB count and HTC will drop significantly. The way to continue to get better then is to increase the counts again, either by altitude, or in professional sports, also doping (EPO).

Elite cyclists, with the massive amount of aerobic training, should be in the low 40% range due to the massive blood volume they have. But they are all around 47-49%, just before the cut-off of 50%. Guess how many of them do it.

Above average talent mixed with close to a decade of aerobic development.

Older brothers to train with.

Long term approach to training set up by their father

What's with this stupid overemphasis on 200m speed? Yes Jakob isn't fast over 200m. But was El Guerrouj fast? No, he also wasn't. There are middle-distance runners who would smoke Jakob in a 200m - Brazier, Lewandowski, Makloufhi, etc., but none of them could beat him in a 1500m right now, his time is just too fast for the speedier guys to keep up. Lewandowski sadly wasn't a factor in the blazing fast Monaco race, and he will find it very hard to be able to beat Jakob again in the future since his PR is a lot better and he won't be getting any younger.

The only mistake Jakob could do right now is to switch to the 800m (where he has absolutely no chance due to his limited speed) or to run a slow 1500m race (for example in Olympics) allowing the faster guys to outsprint him at the end. He can compete in the 1500, 5000, probably even 10000 and is a big threat in these distances.

Fnoob wrote:

What is "Hem 17.5+" ?

Haemoglobin of17.5 (top “normal” is ~15.8)