Is there any wooden 11-laps to a mile track left in the USA?

wheatshuk wrote:

I don't know but I've heard those tracks were decently fast. They were banked and had springs under the boards that were the inspiration for Nike's efforts at studying shoes.

Oh, I didn't knew about the springs underneath it. That's really cool.

Yeah, I also think they were decently fast, in Once a Runner, Denton equates Cassidy's 4:00.1 on such a track to a 3:58.x outdoors which isn't too far from modern indoor track to modern outdoor tracks conversion.

Brazilian Guy wrote:

Was reading about Gerry Lindgren and how his indoor 2 miles HS record is much more impressive than Cheserek's, despite being slower as he ran it on a 11-laps to a mile wooden track vs Cheserek's being run on a banked 8-laps to a mile probably synthetic track.

Then it remembered me of Once a Runner, and Cassidy having difficulties in gauging his efforts on said wooden track, so I became curious:

Can you guys over there still run on such tracks? I think it would be very interesting to ran a mile on such a track as it would be the running equivalent to a historical informed performance in classical music.

Yes, there is one in Oklahoma City at the Myriad that HS kids race on once a year. Definitely no springs in any of the wood tracks.

I know of one wooden track, I believe it’s in Chatham NY, above a gym in a church. I forget the name of the church but I’ll look into it. I live close by so I can probably go check to see if it’s still

There

Isn't the track they use at Millrose still 11 laps and wooden?

St. John's College in Annapolis, MD has (or at least still had recently) this type of track, elevated like a loft above their basketball court in the small gym there. Heavily banked, very bouncy, very creaky, very loud.

wheatshuk wrote:

I don't know but I've heard those tracks were decently fast. They were banked and had springs under the boards that were the inspiration for Nike's efforts at studying shoes.

I used to run on these tracks.

There were no "springs".

The tracks were made up from sections that were pieced together for the meet.

Some were softer, some harder.

Some sections on the same track were harder, some springier.

Different tracks at different venues could be massively different.

Different geometry on all the corners.

Even with the banking, the corners were very tight and you could not hug the inside.

Alternate Reality wrote:

wheatshuk wrote:

I don't know but I've heard those tracks were decently fast. They were banked and had springs under the boards that were the inspiration for Nike's efforts at studying shoes.

I used to run on these tracks.

There were no "springs".

The tracks were made up from sections that were pieced together for the meet.

Some were softer, some harder.

Some sections on the same track were harder, some springier.

Different tracks at different venues could be massively different.

Different geometry on all the corners.

Even with the banking, the corners were very tight and you could not hug the inside.

I went to the LA Times Indoor meet when it was on a short, banked, wooden track. Saw Doug Padilla break the American indoor record for 2 miles. I don't remember his time. He showed he had some practice at it though. You really have to time everything from speed, leaning, when you pass, knowing where you are in the race/how far to go etc... I believe Billy Konchella ran the same night and it was obvious he was seriously out of his element as he careened wildly on the turns. I thought he was going to fly up over the top a couple times.

Eamon Coghlan was truly the Chairman of the Boards for a reason. He was the master at negotiating not only the track but the competition, which was usually some pretty great milers such as Steve Scott, Ray Flynn, Thomas Wessinhage, Marcus O'Sullivan etc... Dude was nearly impossible to beat indoors. What a great but sad story about his journey from indoor greatness, through injury, 5k World Outdoor Champion and back to injury prior to the 84 games where he would have been one of the favorites. 3:49 indoors is dangerous at 5k outdoors for sure. He trained for 5k but raced the mile during those years. Injury could have been caused from tight indoor tracks though.

I always wanted to go to the Milrose Games at MSG just to get that experience but it's now held in the Armory on a 200 track. I started paying attention to track because of the indoor meets they had on tv. SanDiego Sunkist, LA Times, Milrose Games etc.... Houston McTear, Coghlan, Rod Milburn etc...

i ran at a small college which had - still has - a 100 yard banked wood track in the rafters of their gym. No springs.

Alternate Reality wrote:

wheatshuk wrote:

I don't know but I've heard those tracks were decently fast. They were banked and had springs under the boards that were the inspiration for Nike's efforts at studying shoes.

I used to run on these tracks.

There were no "springs".

The tracks were made up from sections that were pieced together for the meet.

Some were softer, some harder.

Some sections on the same track were harder, some springier.

Different tracks at different venues could be massively different.

Different geometry on all the corners.

Even with the banking, the corners were very tight and you could not hug the inside.

I ran my best 3 mile on the San Diego 11 lap plywood track. May have been same track used at the LA Times and Sunkist meets. Pretty fast track with some rebound from plywood. The hardwood, oak tracks, not so much. Some like in Kansas City were 12 laps to the mile. Pretty tight.

Southwestern College?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Alternate Reality wrote:

I used to run on these tracks.

There were no "springs".

The tracks were made up from sections that were pieced together for the meet.

Some were softer, some harder.

Some sections on the same track were harder, some springier.

Different tracks at different venues could be massively different.

Different geometry on all the corners.

Even with the banking, the corners were very tight and you could not hug the inside.

I ran my best 3 mile on the San Diego 11 lap plywood track. May have been same track used at the LA Times and Sunkist meets. Pretty fast track with some rebound from plywood. The hardwood, oak tracks, not so much. Some like in Kansas City were 12 laps to the mile. Pretty tight.

I ran in a masters 4x800 relay at Sunkist a couple of years before they ended that meet. It definitely was the same track they used for the San Diego Jack-in-the-Box meet. The meet organizer would just disassemble it and truck it between LA and SD.

I seem to remember reading that sometime in the late 90s the track was taken to someplace in Northern California for a meet and is stored or rotted away wherever it was last used. Al or Don Franken probably know where it was last.

I grew up running at the armory in NYC. When they installed the bank track I heard a rumor that they built it in such a way (maybe the thickness of the wood or tuning of the tension?) that it vibrates with a frequency that helped runners of a certain speed. It would be cool if we could hear from someone involved in building them.

Thanks old guy II. Same fate for the SF Cow Palace Track. They cut it up to run meets in the Boise State basketball arena. Probably originally 12 laps if I remember, then cut up to 13 or 14. I heard the story, can't remember. Emil Magallanes, former great masters 50 runner, has a piece of it. On a piece at the finish had notable records on it (if I recall the story correctly), maybe even Lindgren's HS 2 mile. Emil asked around and a hardwood floor installer had it. Chased it down to collect the piece with the notes. Emil and his wife Christen Olen, still runs in W50, are big track fans. They have a room over their garage with memorabilia, including Henry Rono's spikes when he set the World Record for the Steeplechase. Henry left them at the track.

Igy

Sunkist & Times Meets

Mr. Rider

Your comments on SD Sunkist And LA Times indoor meets brought back some great memories.

I would fly from my home in Louisiana on Friday nights and see meet and catch Re Eye on

Monday and be at work on time.

I saw versions of both meets for several years.

Thanks for the pleasant memories.

yestheydo wrote:

I know of one wooden track, I believe it’s in Chatham NY, above a gym in a church. I forget the name of the church but I’ll look into it. I live close by so I can probably go check to see if it’s still

There

Perhaps the Wooden Shoe Rather Be Dutch Reformed Church.

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk,

Georgia Dome 200 meter track was acquired for Boise State and community use by benefactor John Jackson. The Jackson Track hosted USATF Masters, the NCAA, and numerous conference indoor championships. As a result of Covid 19 the track will not be set-up this fall, and not likely for the season. It was getting a little worn, but a nice fast tract by any standard. Unfortunately it's days may be numbered.

You bet! That's one thing I really enjoy, remembering not just the names and faces but the experience of doing what you described and reminiscing with total strangers to get their account and to help me with the blank spots.

Met plenty of friendly people over the years that do the same thing. Spouse not interested, friends can't coordinate etc...but always run into familiar faces that recognize each other for decades. Starters, announcers, meet officials from my area working at Championship meets or just regular indoor meets out of the Region like Tyson Indoor inv. Always random people that just pop into the scene, under a tree at a hammer throw cage or in the top row of an empty stadium at the first event of a decathlon. It just happens.

This just reminded me of a guy that drove about 15 hours straight from Texas to Drake Stadium and missed the NCAA Decathlon 100m. He was so excited to be there but mad because he missed the very first event of a 4 day meet. I think there were about 6 fans there watching the long jump heavily outnumbered by athletes and coaches. It was his annual Father's Day gift to himself.

I used to have my college teammates take me to the stadium Kansas Relays/Drake Relays/Dogwood Relays etc.. first thing in the morning so I didn't miss an event. Watching a guy as good as Danny Harris, Butch Reynolds, Calvin Smith etc...run an early morning prelim wasn't to be missed.

Alternate Reality wrote:

wheatshuk wrote:

I don't know but I've heard those tracks were decently fast. They were banked and had springs under the boards that were the inspiration for Nike's efforts at studying shoes.

I used to run on these tracks.

There were no "springs".

The tracks were made up from sections that were pieced together for the meet.

Some were softer, some harder.

Some sections on the same track were harder, some springier.

Different tracks at different venues could be massively different.

Different geometry on all the corners.

Even with the banking, the corners were very tight and you could not hug the inside.

The conventional wisdom was that for faster races (200m, 400m) middle lanes were fastest, and for longer races, running in lane 1 was fastest. For 800 and maybe 600m, you kind of run the outside line of lane one.

The inside of lane 1 was either flat or barely banked, which is why it was hard to run faster races down there. The farther out you went, the better the bank helped you in the turns, but you also had to go progressively more uphill and downhill at the start and end of every turn the more lanes you went out.