(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 7/19/20

Female, 46, 5'4", 106

PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:08/2:57:42

Goal races: ??? Hoping for a late fall marathon

Goal times: 18:30 for 5K, 1:23:xx for half, sub-2:55 for full

Next races: ?

Non-running pandemic goals: 10 prone grip pull-ups (no kipping); 5 one handed push-ups each side.

21 miles, 5500 yards of swimming, 3:30 pool-running, and 30 minutes slow walking on treadmill.

M: A test run of 12x30 seconds jog, 30 seconds walk (about half a mile), 1900 yards swimming, and streaming yoga. 30 minutes slow walking on treadmill in evening.

T: Upperbody weights/core, a test run of 10x60 seconds jog, 30 seconds walk (about 1 mile), 50 minutes of pool-running, and streaming yoga.

W: A test run of 8x2 minutes jog, 30 seconds walk (about 1.5 miles), 50 minutes pool-running, and streaming yoga.

Th: 10x.5 mile jog, 30 second walk (5 miles total), 1800 yards of swimming, and streaming yoga.

F: Upperbody weights, core, 55 minutes of pool-running and streaming yoga

Sa: 7 miles easy (9:25) and 55 minutes of pool-running. Streaming yoga in afternoon.

Su: 9 miles aerobic (was too hot to call "easy") (9:21), some leg rehab work, streaming yoga, 1800 yards of swimming.

Still rehabbing the pulled hamstring, though it's making good progress. Some surprising good news is that I may have actually "fixed" my hip in the process of pulling the hamstring. I've had a lot of problems with that left leg feeling sticky and nervy and not as mobile as the other side. But...when I pulled the hamstring last Wednesday, I felt a "pop" at the sit bone. The pop was clearly not the hamstring or any other muscle tearing from the bone (we know this because I'd be in lot worse shape right now if it had been).

The weird thing was, the mobility of that left hip improved almost immediately after the injury. And my regular nerve pain on that side faded away by the weekend. So...we're thinking (without any MRI or US to confirm) that I've had some old scar tissue in that left hip that has been gumming up the hamstrings and sciatic nerve on that side. And the "pop" I felt was the scar tissue tearing and freeing up that area. Fingers crossed that is the case.

The return to running is going well. I always like to reintroduce running carefully - it's too easy to just decide that you're going to head out for 3 miles as your first run back, and then realize post-run that you overdid it and set yourself back. Inserting 30 second walk breaks into a run gives me a chance to do a sit rep and make sure I'm not overdoing things. I also like starting back with the jogging when things are still tight - I think that something like sets of 30 seconds jog/ 30 seconds walk gives the injury just that tiny bit of stress that encourages it to keep healing. It also gets the blood flowing and keeps the tissue mobile.

By the weekend I had built up to some longer runs. I'd love to reintroduce drills and strides, but the hamstring is just not there yet.

In the meantime, at least I have access to the pool again.

HHH, for what it is worth, and this will surprise no one, but I think that plan looks pretty good.

I personally wouldn’t worry too much about squeezing in 10k paced work - which also will surprise no one.

The constructive criticism I’d provide is that the plan may be too intense. Looks like you have 3 workouts most weeks and they are mostly pretty intense.

So if you decide that you do want to work in some 10k paced work (throwing Tin Man into your mix of mostly Daniels with a touch of Canova), I’d give some consideration to dropping it in in place of some of the faster work rather than non place of the threshold work.

I’d also give some thought to combining your long run and a threshold session from time to time. That will kill two quality day birds with one stone and offer up some more recovery.

Both of those suggestions can be implemented as you evaluate how you’re feeling as you move through the cycle.

Generally though, I think it’s a solid, if aggressive, plan.

npurdy, is there any reason why some weeks you have 3 workouts, while others you have two or sometimes 2 and a half-ish?

Nice weeks so far everyone!

M - 50:00 easy

T - 7 x 3:00 on 1:00 off from 5:20 down to 5:00 with some hills and strides after

W - 60:00 Easy

R - 60:00 with strides / 15:00 easy

F - 3 x 1600 5:27, 5:18, 5:07 with 400 jog + 3 x 800 2:31, 2:28, 2:18

S - 60:00 easy / 15:00 Easy

S - 17 at 7:00 average from 8k feet up to 9k feet then back down.

Mileage - 80 or just over.

Supposed to still Time Trial a 2km in a few weeks, so trying to get comfortable with the bit quicker running.

M, 22, 5'8/162

No races on the horizon, just base-building and building fitness for when the time comes to use it.

M - 7.8ez @ 7:40 + strength

T - 7.77ez @ 7:28 + strength

W - 8.03 @ 7:18 (threw in some steady stuff @ 6:30-6:40 for 5ish miles)

TH - 7.1 recovery @ 8:26 + strength

F - 7ez @ 7:40 + strength

S - 7 @ 7:45 progression 9:00 ~ 6:20s + strength

S - 7.12 recovery @ 8:30

Total: 52mi, 3087ft elevation, 6h47m + 2.5h of strength

Wednesday I wanted to do a full progression but got a late start and no shade, ran steady then shut it down when it became a grind given the conditions and jogged it in. Weather each morning was 75-80deg and 90-95% humidity, lost a lot of sweat this week. Pretty much just taking 2 days each week to jog stupidly easy and recover, then running easy and progressing when my legs feel good. Routes are pretty hilly. Strava gives me a GAP of 6:45-7:00 for most of these days minus the recovery stuff.

Strength sessions were 200-300 pushups, a lot of pullups, a lot of air squats, and kettlebell swings.

Yo.

After many months absence, I've finally got a damned race on the horizon that's almost certainly going ahead! Therefore I figured I'd try and get back in the habit of posting my training once more.

It's a HM on 12th September in NI, looks to be a super fast course. NI has already held some road races this past weekend with runners going off in waves. Fingers crossed it'll stay safe and secure to do so in 7 or so weeks time.

I've spent the last 9 week running higher mileage than ever before - before lockdown (mid-March in the UK) I'd hit 80 twice in my life. I've now averaged 80 over the last 9 weeks in anticipation of the London Marathon going ahead (we find out on Tuesday 28th July if that's the case or not) so this half with either be the tune up or the goal itself.

Anyhow, last 3 weeks were 88, 85, 85 (1-2 quality sessions and a long run every week too) and this week just ended a rest week going 78 miles with 1 session (8 x 2min @ 5K off 1min) and a 19 miler.

I feel pretty fit, ran a good 3 x 5k (17:35 avg) 10 days ago so fingers crossed I just pop a nice PB in Sept.

It's good to be back.

HHW: Nice work! getting back into the groove like it was nothing.

Coach Jeff: What watch or brand product are you using for all the HR and HRV data? Do you feel the HRV is accurate and useable? I have read a few different opinions on HRV and how "useable" it is.

RRR: Looks like the weekend got you good. What is the rail road tie workout?

image: Good call on the recovery week in time and not distance. I feel like some days time would be much better than forcing a distance for no other reason that mpw goals haha.

Seppo: Solid week. Would you say the "floats" are moderate or a bit faster?

sub6: 15 with no water right now sounds like torture! heck of a wednesday progression!

OR: looking great. If youre feeling good must be doing something right

Stone: Always helps finding local training parters in close enough range to run together. I have found a few and its much better than running alone 100% of the time.

GNR1: solid workouts with sub 5 closing, nice! Where was the 5k pacing at in your LR? Stinks about monumental, hoping houston happens!!

TCRL: haha I think youre on the right track and things look to be going well. How much of the cycling/lifting/non running do you think youll keep around once youre back to full running?

Viking: Sounds like your friend was pretty consistent, bet it helped both of you being out there doing a workout. Thats a long cool down! What is your opinion on the stryd running stress score and their running stress balance?

Smoove: Great work on staying consistent, healthy, and bumping the miles all together! Can get tough stringing everything together right now.

DW: careful coming back. hope things keep making good progress. sounds like youre doing things smart and right.

Joshua: Yea its a simple answer. I do a workout every 3rd day. So my schedule is simple. Easy - Easy - Workout and repeat for infinity. I work 24 hour shifts with 48 hours off.

rucker: dang thats some GAP for the hills! heat and humidity is a killer right now, smart call on taking a couple of days very easy.

npurdy1112 wrote:

GNR1: solid workouts with sub 5 closing, nice! Where was the 5k pacing at in your LR? Stinks about monumental, hoping houston happens!!

npurdy1112, 3mi wu, 5k pacing, 12mi cd. Agreed, we may be coordinating our own small local “races” if this keeps up

imagebearer wrote:

Coach Jeff it's always interesting seeing your HR-based week. Is there a particular coach / book that inspired your style?

It's the base-building phase from the well-known "Hadd thread" from back in the early 2000s here. People have compiled the guts of it in various places, like here:

To me, there is nothing magical about using HR vs pace vs feel. A base-building phase is all about pushing LT up from below that line. It's just that, in the summer heat, "feel" is almost always "worse than it really is" and pace "slower than expected." I often feel so hot I want to slow down, but when I look at my watch I feel like I need to be speeding up. The HRM is an objective arbiter. I just punch up the day's workout into the Garmin and go; when I hit the line, the watch beeps and I can decide to slow down or ignore it or whatever.

Because I started into distance running kinda late in life (early-mid 30s), and I trained stupid for a bunch of years (I learned about training from the old Runners World forum), when I finally took the time to do a true base-building phase, I saw incredible results. I credit this Hadd training with getting me from a 4-hour slogger to a 3:12 marathoner... with hope still remaining to go sub-3, despite my advancing years ?

npurdy1112 wrote:

Coach Jeff: What watch or brand product are you using for all the HR and HRV data? Do you feel the HRV is accurate and useable? I have read a few different opinions on HRV and how "useable" it is.

For HR, I have a chest strap that works with my Garmin forerunner.

As for HRV...

I have also heard, and held, different opinions about HRV. For any data to mean anything, data collection has to be consistent, and in the past, HRV collection was difficult. However, I read something that made me think of HRV again recently and came across the HRV4Training app. I was skeptical about an app that uses the cellphone cam to take a reading, but the documentation about the validity of the method convinced me. I take the reading before I even get out of bed in the morning, and the app has the ability to analyze the result in a variety of ways.

Currently, I'm not "using" the data for anything, but I am collecting the data and keeping an eye on it.

highhoppingworm wrote:

The phrase “35 minutes constant aquatic movement” yields some hilarious images in my head.

I don't know how else to put it!

Thinking back on it, aqua jogging/swimming would fit well.

@npurdy1112 - I plan on keeping a lot of what I'm doing now when I get back into full-time running. I hurt myself by running too many miles, so I think I have a cap of about ~60 MPW. Pushing to 70 has hurt me a few times now. And I did six weeks of 70+ in a row during that Boston Marathon training cycle, so yeah... I need to check that and swimming or cycling could definitely allow me to stay fresh for workouts and a full training cycle.

Tyler_Cycles/Runs_Lifts wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

The phrase “35 minutes constant aquatic movement” yields some hilarious images in my head.

I don't know how else to put it!

Thinking back on it, aqua jogging/swimming would fit well.

It's nice that they let you do both and swap back and forth. Right now, the way our pools are working, I have to select one or the other and book a session specifically for that. I miss the days where I could just decide to head over, and then decide what I was doing once I was there. If I book a swimming session, and then 10 minutes in my shoulder feels iffy, whelp, that's it.

[not complaining - I'm incredibly grateful the pools are open. Just wistful.]

M - AM: 6 PM: 4

T - AM: 4.4 - 2mi TT in 10:19 (5:16, 5:03), full 2mi, last lap @ 4:35 pace. PM: 9.4 - Got lost, ran way too far... came within a few feet of a huge falcon and ran through really sketchy neighborhoods.

W - AM: 8 PM: 4

T - AM: 7 PM: 2.2 - Outside left toes were occasionally hurting on impact. I got scared and called it early.

F - AM: 7 - 2x3200m @ LT w/ 320 jog and some standing rest - 11:40 (5:51, 5:49), 11:28 (5:46, 5:42). Last lap at ~5:06 pace felt smooth. Minimal pain in toes. No pain in last 3200. PM: 5 - No pains.

S - AM: 13

S - AM: 6.2 PM: 4

Total: 80

M: 8 w strides

T: 8 w strength

W: off

Th: 6 w strength

F: 9 fast last mile

S: 11 w fast last ~30min (started thunder & lightning when I was still a ways from home)

S: 90 min hike

Problem with Badger miles is that when you have to pick it up the last third of your run your 12 mile long run turns into an 11 miler.

darkwave wrote:

Tyler_Cycles/Runs_Lifts wrote:

I don't know how else to put it!

Thinking back on it, aqua jogging/swimming would fit well.

It's nice that they let you do both and swap back and forth. Right now, the way our pools are working, I have to select one or the other and book a session specifically for that. I miss the days where I could just decide to head over, and then decide what I was doing once I was there. If I book a swimming session, and then 10 minutes in my shoulder feels iffy, whelp, that's it.

[not complaining - I'm incredibly grateful the pools are open. Just wistful.]

On another computer (Really need to register my name)

I wish I had the opportunity to book a session specifically for aqua jogging.

The way we have it set up is that you schedule a 45-minute appointment, get in there & have to maintain movement, unless you're getting a drink of water or something. They don't allow you to aqua jog in the deep end by squaring off the end of the lane, so what I do is walk until the flags, then aqua jog down, swim back and so on and so forth.

M/41

Next race: Boston virtual - still unsure if I will be able to race it hard solo. Feels very daunting :(.

M: 6.5 easy

T: 10.4 with workout [6 x 1K with 1 minute recovery] - Didn't feel recovered for this workout. Felt hard from the get-go. I should also have increased the recovery time, but the watch was programmed to a 1 minute recovery :(. Reps were: 3:56, 4:00, 3:57, 4:00, 3:58. 3:49.

W: 7.5 easy

Th: 10 with 4 @ threshold. Felt great. Ran by feel - landed at 6:32 for the 4 mile block. Don't have individual mile paces because I don't auto-lap the watch these days. I remember seeing 6:38 as the lap average around the first mile mark, so would have most likely gone under 6:30 for the next 3 to get the average to 6:32.

F: 8 easy

Sa: 18.5 with 2 x 4 miles @MP effort. Had plans to run easy, but ran into a friend on the local bike path who was going to do this workout. We are at similar fitness, so decided to roll with it. Felt tired at the beginning. The 2 x 4 mile reps went smooth (~ 7:05 avg pace). The last 3 miles of cooldown became tougher than what I imagined. 98% humidity might have been the reason for feeling so sapped.

Su: 45 mile bike ride. Took my old, trusted bike and went out. Rolled in home after 3 hours and with 45 miles under the belt. Morning very well spent! :)

Weekly running miles: 61

Weekly biking miles: 45

RunnerSam wrote:

Darkwave (Statfanatic?) - Looks like Harrisburg Mile will be ran on August 19th as an in person race.

Where did you see this RS? I'd be a bit interested... wonder how they are running it... staggered start?