Sweden victorious over COVID-19. Disease goes home devastated.

Americans in general have an extremely low sense of social responsibility. The opposite of countries such as Japan and Scandinavian countries.

People will do anything in the US to believe that as an individual they have no impact.

This is seen in the response to global warming before and this virus now.

Americans will tell themselves repeatedly that nothing is their fault, they have no responsibility to do anything about any issues and that the issues don't even exist anyway.

That is why the virus is decimating the Great USA.

victory!! wrote:

daswede wrote:

Sweden with no lockdown at 5536 deaths with 10MM pop compared to NYC with extensive lockdowns at 32,065 deaths with <9MM pop? I'll take those numbers all day.

Go Sweden!

Let us compare to Sweden's nearest neighbours: Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden: 578 deaths per million

Denmark: 108 deaths per million

Finland: 57 deaths per million

Norway: 48 deaths per million.

What a victory for Sweden.

If 70% of Sweeden got Covid that suggest an IFR of less than .1%. If 50% which is probable very reasonable then .115%.

Don't infect those in elder care and you're alright.

daswede wrote:

victory!! wrote:

Let us compare to Sweden's nearest neighbours: Denmark, Norway and Finland.

Sweden: 578 deaths per million

Denmark: 108 deaths per million

Finland: 57 deaths per million

Norway: 48 deaths per million.

What a victory for Sweden.

Let me know what happens when those countries open for real.

Coming soon to Denmark:

"More specifically, Denmark introduced new health and safety measures for schools, including: (1) In the classroom, students must be seated at tables that are at least two meters (6.5 feet) apart; (2) students must handwash every two hours; and (3) all educational materials and equipment must be cleaned twice a day."

That's totally sustainable and going to work well! Would need a building footprint the size of a football stadium to give each student two meters of space. How long can this charade that we can prevent a virus from spreading last?

Norway is open and have been for some time. There is no advantage for Sweden over Norway, as there is no mass immunity in Sweden. They only have thousands more dead. Tell me, what advantage do they have?

Watching the leftists backstab against Sweden, formerly one of their "socialist utopias" for daring to buck the totalitarian tendencies of the neo-Marxist love of covid restrictions, is like watching a viper bend back and bite itself, writhing to come up with its venomous narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z34ILhFs-xs&t=311s

Are you implying that leftists can/should never criticize Sweden?

Show the scientific data that shows lock downs work. I like how you spout "science" by denying science. The sign of a true genius.

YMMV wrote:

Watching the leftists backstab against Sweden, formerly one of their "socialist utopias" for daring to buck the totalitarian tendencies of the neo-Marxist love of covid restrictions, is like watching a viper bend back and bite itself, writhing to come up with its venomous narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z34ILhFs-xs&t=311s

On this site, the people who have been getting all hot and bothered over Sweden in the recent years are people like yourself, Mr 2600 and Hardloper decrying the fact that it was once a white paradise and is now full of crime and murder.

How can you have a good economy if going out means getting sick? If going to work means you have a 20% chance of going to the hospital in the next year and a 1% chance of dying?

Wouldn't it be better to have cases low enough that with mass testing and contact tracing you could find and quarantine infected people? Maybe slow the spread through a few other measures like maybe minimizing how often you go out? Keeping your distance? Wearing a mask?

Nevermind that seems dumb. MERICA!

The lie behind the whole Sweden didn't lockdown argument is the notion that Swedes just went on with life and magically avoided what happened in Italy and NY. There were government mandated restrictions. Schools closed, no sporting events, no gatherings of more than 50 people. Beyond that, there were social distancing guidelines from the government that Swedes took very seriously and actually exceeded in many ways. According to surveys, 58% of Swedes did not meet with friends and 74% stayed home during their spare time. Many companies had employees work from home. Bars only had table service. In many ways, Swedish voluntary social distancing was more restrictive than many government "stay at home" orders in the US. And, most importantly, Swedes starting doing social distancing very early in the pandemic and had excellent public health response with testing and tracing very early in the pandemic. The big hole in the Swedish approach was nursing homes and immigrant communities. That is where a good bit of the mortality and spread took place. And in general, there was more infection and death in the general population due to lack of lockdowns compared to the other Nordics. Worse still, Norway, Finland, Iceland and Denmark have new positive case coming in the single digits while Sweden is still dealing with hundreds of new cases. So, Sweden has experienced the same economic damage as the other Nordics, has much worse outcomes in terms of deaths, spread and the current state of infection and all that to avoid about 6-8 weeks of shutdowns.

But if you are using Sweden as an argument against lockdown measures in the US, you will need to find a part of the US where there is similar health care infrastructure (excellent testing and tracing, universal health care, paid sick leave, etc.), a population that is nearly 100% behind the science and willing to voluntarily social distance in a manner that is basically what has been mandated in many US states. Of course, that does not exist. Instead, people in the US packed bars and beaches, went to work sick, couldn't get timely testing and had no health insurance. The result of relaxing lockdowns in the US is the current disaster and not the comparably minor failure of the Swedes.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/15/covid19-accidental-sweden-fall-could-be-catastrophic/

ex-runner wrote:

Americans in general have an extremely low sense of social responsibility. The opposite of countries such as Japan and Scandinavian countries.

People will do anything in the US to believe that as an individual they have no impact.

Sweden's neutrality during WWII was a disgusting display of what you accused Americans of. Hundreds of thousand of American soldiers gave their lives for a Europe free of German power, while Swedes sat it out like it was a tennis match. It wasn't pacificism by Sweden. They basically couldn't bring themselves to lay any kind of moral judgment on Germans. Disgusting.

Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:

The deniers and herd immunity folks better look at the new research coming out of Spain and the U.K. this week. Unlike SARS and MERS, COVID 19 acts more like corona viruses linked to the common cold in that the "immunity" only lasts about 60 days and re-infections are a distinct possibility.

Then let's all stay locked up and wait for the vaccine. We can all get the shot and have a good 60 days before we return to our mom's basement

Sweden got the basics right. It can be improved by protecting the vulnerable a bit more. For example, it can have special policies for the nursing homes, senior citizens and chronically ill people. Other than that, it will come out ahead of other countries very soon.

Rebulphitudinal wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Americans in general have an extremely low sense of social responsibility. The opposite of countries such as Japan and Scandinavian countries.

People will do anything in the US to believe that as an individual they have no impact.

Sweden's neutrality during WWII was a disgusting display of what you accused Americans of. Hundreds of thousand of American soldiers gave their lives for a Europe free of German power, while Swedes sat it out like it was a tennis match. It wasn't pacificism by Sweden. They basically couldn't bring themselves to lay any kind of moral judgment on Germans. Disgusting.

That is not social responsibility. That is politics.

Social responsibility is the stuff one poster above refers to. 74% of Swedes following social distancing and more without having to be fined or punished by he police.

It's following what the government asks you to do for the good of everyone in your community and country.

The little things like picking up litter, turning off your TV to save power and not meeting friends or staging mass anti-lockdown protests in huge groups.

ex-runner wrote:

Rebulphitudinal wrote:

Sweden's neutrality during WWII was a disgusting display of what you accused Americans of. Hundreds of thousand of American soldiers gave their lives for a Europe free of German power, while Swedes sat it out like it was a tennis match. It wasn't pacificism by Sweden. They basically couldn't bring themselves to lay any kind of moral judgment on Germans. Disgusting.

That is not social responsibility. That is politics.

Your post is conclusory, and based on nothing but your subjective labeling with no support. Opposing German tyranny and genocide is not "politics" as you tried to categorize it. You could just as easily put social distancing in the politics bucket, and opposition to German death camps in the social responsibility bucket.

What a stupid post by you. And your defense of Sweden's behavior during the last century is disgusting.

You can't say there were "extensive lockdowns" in America when a horrifyingly large number of people completely ignored lockdowns and social distancing and refused to wear masks. Scientists saying "stay home" isn't a real lockdown because it wasn't enforced so a ton of people ignored it and whined that it "vIoLaTeD tHeIr RiGhTs;" in other countries like Italy where the lockdown was enforced, the situation was brought relatively under control. Meanwhile in America they've decided the pandemic is over despite the fact that they're setting record highs for new cases.

So yes, go Sweden because they took precautions much sooner than the US (no gatherings of over 50, social distancing, many people listened to science and voluntarily self-isolated, etc.) so their situation was never near as bad as America's. Sweden was closer to being in lockdown than America ever was (you certainly didn't see dozens of news articles about Swedes in different cities protesting for weeks because they wanted a haircut). Hopefully more people in the USA start listening to science and logic instead of uneducated politicians, because that's really the only way they'll ever beat the virus.

It is extremely common knowledge what the purpose of a lockdown is, but if you must have science:

Maybe next you will ask me to prove the Earth is round

Uneffin real, The elites feed you this BS Covid story and fear monger with a constant stream of ridiculous claims and numbers. When you point out the American numbers are way out of line with the rest of the world, they feed us a nonsensical line about how Americans don't follow rules and every other nation does and belittle those who don't buy their garbage as caring more about haircuts than health.

And you guys just regurgitate what you have been told seemingly with no thoughts of your own

Rebulphitudinal wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

That is not social responsibility. That is politics.

Your post is conclusory, and based on nothing but your subjective labeling with no support. Opposing German tyranny and genocide is not "politics" as you tried to categorize it. You could just as easily put social distancing in the politics bucket, and opposition to German death camps in the social responsibility bucket.

What a stupid post by you. And your defense of Sweden's behavior during the last century is disgusting.

You deleted the part of my post where I pointed to the statistical facts posted by another poster.

I don't care about Sweden's government's decision in the last 50 to 100 years it really has nothing to do with me.

Social distancing is not politics it is the result of science.

I simply and clearly stated the absolute facts that are the American public in general does not care about its fellow citizens enough to follow basic lockdown activities for a few weeks. They also don't care about global warming etc. There are many, many studies to show this you can do your own research. Also the average, non-biased individual will tell you that is the case immediately.

Other countries have much higher appreciations for social responsibility in their own communities. Japan, Scandinavian countries for example. The UK, not so much, we like to moan and whinge. We had some protests.

But the US public takes pride in defying the government, refuting the wisdom of other nations and specifically not doing what it's asked to.

Yeah Sweden!!!

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/07/15/multimedia/15-MORNING-USCASES2/15-MORNING-USCASES2-jumbo.png?quality=90&auto=webp