15x400m at 3k pace

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

15x400 should be done @5k pace with ~45"-1' rest.

Or 10x400@3k with ~1'15rest.

thx. so for an 18.40min 5 k runner. I could do them in 86 sec with 75 sec standing rest (10 times at 3k pace)???

sounder wrote:

thx. so for an 18.40min 5 k runner. I could do them in 86 sec with 75 sec standing rest (10 times at 3k pace)???

18.40 gives roughly 10'45 3k.

So yes 1'26 looks like your exact 3k pace.

You can take 1'30 rest(~1/1 rest). If that's feel easy next time you can try 1'15 rest.

Light jogging rest is better in my opinion.

thx

that sounds proper. last week i really tried 20 x 400m and ran them in 86 sec with 55 sec walking rest. the last 5 reps really felt like a race but i could do them.

I guess I don't really get the point of this workout. Like what are you hoping to get out of this workout? If you're looking to use this as a VO2 workout i'd say the reps are too short to really be good. It takes roughly 2mins to work up to VO2 so your intervals should be atleast 2mins for a good vo2 rep. If you're planning to use this a pacing workout you can do with fewer reps. 15 is a lot for a pacing workout. You'll start to internalize it much earlier than that and anything more than 6-8 is overkill i'd say. If the point of doing so many is to learn to run the pace on tired legs, it'd probably be more beneficial to do some threshold work first.

[3.1]Miles Davis wrote:

I guess I don't really get the point of this workout. Like what are you hoping to get out of this workout? If you're looking to use this as a VO2 workout i'd say the reps are too short to really be good. It takes roughly 2mins to work up to VO2 so your intervals should be atleast 2mins for a good vo2 rep. If you're planning to use this a pacing workout you can do with fewer reps. 15 is a lot for a pacing workout. You'll start to internalize it much earlier than that and anything more than 6-8 is overkill i'd say. If the point of doing so many is to learn to run the pace on tired legs, it'd probably be more beneficial to do some threshold work first.

Shocked how someone can be wrong in every sentence of a response.

that's a strong workout.

You should not train that hard. Race the races, not the workouts. That said, you might be in sub 18' shape given you can run 17'55 pace for 8k with 400reps and little rest.

If you don't manage do run sub 18', you should work on longer VO2Max workout like 800/1000/1200 at 5k pace with 1'30/2'/2'30 rest.(total length of the reps 5-6k max). And lactate threshold (LT) with long reps, 4x6' towards 2x12'or 1x20'.

What is your goal BTW?

sounder wrote:

how long should be the rest for 15x400m on track at 3k pace?

You want to run a 6k workout at 3k effort... good luck getting run to the ground....

And get a coach....

Impala31 wrote:

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

15x400 should be done @5k pace with ~45"-1' rest.

Or 10x400@3k with ~1'15rest.

+1 Good advice

You could probably shorten the rest on the 400s, I've done 10x400 @ 3k with 55s rest as well as 10x500 @ 3k+ (like 1 second slower per lap) with 1'15 rest, but I was a bit faster than you when I did these workouts so take that into account. (I was probably in 15'45 shape when I ran these workouts)

Rule of thumb. The volume of the workout shouldn't exceed the pace of the workout. So 6k of intervals should be run at 6k pace. 8x400 at 3k pace is more sensible.

Impala31 wrote:

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

Runner10287 wrote:

Rule of thumb. The volume of the workout shouldn't exceed the pace of the workout. So 6k of intervals should be run at 6k pace. 8x400 at 3k pace is more sensible.

This is bad advice! I routinely run up to 2k of intervals at 800 pace, 3k of intervals at 1500 pace, 4.5k of intervals at 2k pace, 5k+ of intervals at 3k pace, and 6k of intervals at 5k pace.

You don't need to kill yourself in training, but you won't improve with such conservative training.

Hardloper wrote:

Impala31 wrote:

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

It's way too hard with 100m recovery jog (25-30s).

200m (50-60s) jog would make it a difficult but doable workout, but there are better 3k workouts with the same level of difficulty - 6x800 or 4x1000+a couple 400 @ 1500 pace with 3' rest would probably prepare you better for a race.

Hardloper wrote:

Impala31 wrote:

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

almost everybody here agrees that 8-10x400 is the classic mile workout. So 2 to 2.5x race distance. so 15x400 sounds very reasonable. Is training around 2x the distance of that workouts preferred race really the money spot?

Obviously this changes as you go from 800 to 1600 to 3200 and all the way up to the marathon...So what is the generally agreed upon volume for each race distance?

evening wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

It's way too hard with 100m recovery jog (25-30s).

200m (50-60s) jog would make it a difficult but doable workout, but there are better 3k workouts with the same level of difficulty - 6x800 or 4x1000+a couple 400 @ 1500 pace with 3' rest would probably prepare you better for a race.

Long sets of short reps like 20x400 are popular early/mid season workouts. I don't see how those workouts are "better." They both have a purpose.

I mean it depends of the purpose of the workout, but assuming the goal is a solid difficulty, race pace prep workout with around 1:1 rest, maybe more for the 800 pace reps.

800 : 2k, in 200-300m reps

1500 : 4k, in 400m/500m reps

3k : 5k, in 500m-1000m reps

5k : 7k, in 1000-1600m reps

10k: 8-10k in 1600m-2000m reps ? I don't run this distance very much. I just did 6x1000m/200j @ 10k before running my pr, but it was a pretty soft workout. Probably could've done 3-4 more reps to make it difficult

I don't really run the others so ?

Hardloper wrote:

evening wrote:

It's way too hard with 100m recovery jog (25-30s).

200m (50-60s) jog would make it a difficult but doable workout, but there are better 3k workouts with the same level of difficulty - 6x800 or 4x1000+a couple 400 @ 1500 pace with 3' rest would probably prepare you better for a race.

Long sets of short reps like 20x400 are popular early/mid season workouts. I don't see how those workouts are "better." They both have a purpose.

Yea you're right - I was thinking of a later season race pace prep workout in the style of 10x400 @ mile pace, but for the 3k, where I would prefer longer reps.

evening wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

It's way too hard with 100m recovery jog (25-30s).

200m (50-60s) jog would make it a difficult but doable workout, but there are better 3k workouts with the same level of difficulty - 6x800 or 4x1000+a couple 400 @ 1500 pace with 3' rest would probably prepare you better for a race.

You are both right and wrong.

Yes, 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m jog (40-45s). The key is to not do a steady jog at 25-30s as you suggested but really slow shuffling, just enough to keep HR elevated.

But, not every runner can do it. It depends on FT vs ST runner, VO2MAX vs lactate threshold/400m speed, lactate clearance rate etc. Brynn Brown would have absolutely no problem with that workout (she even did 4xMile at 3k pace on only 2:30 rest).

The most important thing to know is that between 3k and mile pace there is a huge difference, especially for ST runners with high VO2MAX but low speed. They can do a lot of work/volume at 3k-5k pace, but anything mile-pace or harder kills them with low rests or in moderate-high volume.

evening wrote:

I mean it depends of the purpose of the workout, but assuming the goal is a solid difficulty, race pace prep workout with around 1:1 rest, maybe more for the 800 pace reps.

800 : 2k, in 200-300m reps

1500 : 4k, in 400m/500m reps

3k : 5k, in 500m-1000m reps

5k : 7k, in 1000-1600m reps

10k: 8-10k in 1600m-2000m reps ? I don't run this distance very much. I just did 6x1000m/200j @ 10k before running my pr, but it was a pretty soft workout. Probably could've done 3-4 more reps to make it difficult

I don't really run the others so ?

i think most of those sound solidly reasonable for volume. Of course rest is highly dependent on distance. 800 rest is often 3 to 5 x work duration. 1500 is usually around 2x, 3k is closer to 1x. Sometimes .75 or 1.25. 5k is maybe around .75 or 1:1.

That's what seems normal for a typical workout. Indicator workouts of course have much shorter rest periods