Tinman Elite launch Hammer & Axe Training

The point of this is clear -

Tinman himself charges $200/month, and what you get for it is a monthly plan and one monthly e-mail or 15 minute phone call.

The Tinman Elite runners as coaches (some other coaches, like Thorn and Joan Hunter are thrown in there too btw) charge $200/month, but it includes weekly feedback, unlimited e-mails/text and a weekly call of unspecified duration. That's a LOT more "value" for the same price.

The TME also offer a $50/month option, where someone just receives a plan. Tinman himself offers this option for $150/month.

So in terms of price, the "Hammer & Axe" system is far more valuable than getting coached directly by Tinman himself.

However, you have a coach with 30+ years experience vs elite runners in their early-mid 20s with limited/no prior coaching experience, so it's up to the "fanbase" to decide whether they want to pay that much to coaches without certifications and actual coaching experience.

Ah, got it. He doesn't have any more time to take on coaching clients, but he wants to make more money. I hate that!

So now he will "let" his athletes coach beneath him, justifying his taking a big ol cut by saying he's providing them a platform. I'm sure that's not how this arrangement is framed when he talks about it, but...

Say what you want about Tom and TME, they know how to market themselves. If you can afford it, it seems pretty cool for a HS kid to get to have a 1 on 1 coaching relationship with their favorite athlete. What other group in any sport has that kind of model?

confused.... wrote:

Ah, got it. He doesn't have any more time to take on coaching clients, but he wants to make more money. I hate that!

So now he will "let" his athletes coach beneath him, justifying his taking a big ol cut by saying he's providing them a platform. I'm sure that's not how this arrangement is framed when he talks about it, but...

Tinman doesn't seem to be connected with this in any way. They even founded an own company for this project, "Hammer and Axe LLC".

It is probably true that Tinman is maxing out on his capacity as coach, but I doubt he is going to get any cuts from what the elite guys are doing with the "Hammer and Axe LLC". Please allow these guys earn to some money (if they get customers), they aren't exactly getting rich from prize moneys alone.

I'm sure Tom is just licensing out all the branding to them out of goodwill, and expects not to make any money off this new venture that he has spent money investing in.

Oh wait, nevermind, I understand business

slom wo wrote:

Say what you want about Tom and TME, they know how to market themselves. If you can afford it, it seems pretty cool for a HS kid to get to have a 1 on 1 coaching relationship with their favorite athlete. What other group in any sport has that kind of model?

It looks good initially, since it seems like it's a tennis player getting coached by Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic. But then I realized, it's just like getting coached by a rank 20-25 pro tennis player since the TME coaches aren't at the very top, so the celebrity aspect is weakened a bit.

If you’re not tryna run world class times you don’t need Tinman to coach you. This cheaper plan will do just fine

I got the impression from their social media roll-out and poking around on their website that this is more a project launched out of respect for Tinman and their other past coaches.

Tinman himself is often talking about leaving a legacy and making an impact on others in his podcasts and interviews—seems like his athletes are eager to start building a legacy of their own through coaching.

Cool opportunity for his athletes, and won't detract from his business seeing as he works with more competitive runners (to indoorszn's point) and he's likely already at his limit for what he can handle based on his Instagram posts. At this point, he can certainly justify raising his prices and working with the same number of clients thanks to the amount of requests he likely gets due to his success with Tinman Elite!

So I don't know much about this. But my big question is why would I pay for Tinman coaching?

There are pages and pages about his training online, read that, give it some critical thought, and then create a plan for yourself. You know your own training and body 100x better than some semipro your gonna email one a month will. I say your much better off doing it yourself (as long as you listen to your body right phil?).

Would you skip buying a new car from the manufacturer just because you could buy all the parts to build your own at home? Just because the info is out there doesn't mean you'll know what to do with it. You'd pay Tinman because you want to get faster and you don't want to stress about wether or not you're doing the training correctly.

Are they communists? Do they not see how similar that looks to the hammer & sickle?

Get out now while you can!!!!!

runfastturnleft wrote:

Would you skip buying a new car from the manufacturer just because you could buy all the parts to build your own at home? Just because the info is out there doesn't mean you'll know what to do with it. You'd pay Tinman because you want to get faster and you don't want to stress about wether or not you're doing the training correctly.

I am sorry you lost me because you made a terrible and disingenuous analogy and I paid no attention to your actual point.

But lets be honest, the real reason I won't pay for his coaching is because Tinman is a average coach at best. Come up with a bunch of fancy names and everyone thinks he is a genius. If Hunter left the cult, got a real coach, he would run 3:50 with his talent.

It’s not that complicated. It’s running. Here’s all you need to know about the program.

Monday and Thursday 60/30 double.

Wednesday’and Saturday: 60 min single for recovery post workout

Tuesday and Friday. CV fartlek/ Tempo run/ or 1 mile threshold reps. Add 200m reps or 30 second hill reps at the end. Every once in a while you can add in simple Vo2 max stuff but don’t completely avoid the CV/threshold stuff. Sample vo2 max can be like 10x600@ 3k pace or faster then tack on some 200’s at the end with a short 10 min threshold.

Sunday: Long Run- prescribed as easy pace but some TME guys will get after it.

The mileage/time will depend on your experience level.

Seems expensive. They are using Tom's system for sure - but also are clearly not using "critical velocity" as I am sure they are either afraid/have been instructed to leave it out of their coaching,

hutyil wrote:

It’s not that complicated. It’s running. Here’s all you need to know about the program.

Monday and Thursday 60/30 double.

Wednesday’and Saturday: 60 min single for recovery post workout

Tuesday and Friday. CV fartlek/ Tempo run/ or 1 mile threshold reps. Add 200m reps or 30 second hill reps at the end. Every once in a while you can add in simple Vo2 max stuff but don’t completely avoid the CV/threshold stuff. Sample vo2 max can be like 10x600@ 3k pace or faster then tack on some 200’s at the end with a short 10 min threshold.

Sunday: Long Run- prescribed as easy pace but some TME guys will get after it.

The mileage/time will depend on your experience level.

You missed strides in there :)

indoorszn wrote:

If you’re not tryna run world class times you don’t need Tinman to coach you. This cheaper plan will do just fine

LoL! The fact is Tinman don't coach world class runners and will most truly never do.

Tinman used to online coach me for free back in the day. Eventually he started to ask for a monthly ‘gift’, as he called it. He’s not a bad coach, but I would not recommend spending $200 a month on it. Personally I wouldn’t spend that kind of money on ANY coach, online or in person.

You can find basically all of what he says online if you dig around.

Save your money.

Actually hutyil said, ‘200m reps or 30s hill reps at the end.’

Those 200m ‘reps’ would really be the ‘strides’ or ‘striders’ as Tinman calls them. Never been a fan of that word.

supragraf wrote:

Actually hutyil said, ‘200m reps or 30s hill reps at the end.’

Those 200m ‘reps’ would really be the ‘strides’ or ‘striders’ as Tinman calls them. Never been a fan of that word.

Maybe even something like 10 x :20 on M/R, but who knows!