Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
No. It doesn't even make the top 10.
I wonder what would have happened if the others had tried to go with him?
What about Herb Elliott's 3:35 at Rome in the 1960 final.?
He led.for half the race and won by 3 seconds.
If we convert 1 second a lap for cinders to Doha, and take another second off for shoes (conservative), that would be in the same ball park.
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcTd4xZ44o&t=360s
It's a great race for sure.
Another great race from recent years is when Silas Kiplagat dispatched the favourite Kiprop with a suprise 3:27.
https://youtu.be/qc2GSBUZEMkAlso I know he got done for doping but the sheer ridiculousness of Kiprops 3:29 at Birmingham for a UK all-comers record also needs a mention. That is not a fast track, anyone who has run there knows this. It is often windy.
The distance from Kiprop to Iguider and then to the rest of the field says it all.
I wish they'd strike this performance from the books but everyone knows it was bogus anyway.
https://youtu.be/Wlt8FhJg2W0Coevett wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if the others had tried to go with him?
What about Herb Elliott's 3:35 at Rome in the 1960 final.?
He led.for half the race and won by 3 seconds.
If we convert 1 second a lap for cinders to Doha, and take another second off for shoes (conservative), that would be in the same ball park.
OP, it is NOT the best 1500m performance ever. No way. However, Coevett predictably brought up a white guy as possibly having the best performance ever. Yup. You cannot make it up.
Coevett wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if the others had tried to go with him?
What about Herb Elliott's 3:35 at Rome in the 1960 final.?
He led.for half the race and won by 3 seconds.
If we convert 1 second a lap for cinders to Doha, and take another second off for shoes (conservative), that would be in the same ball park.
It was a fine effort by Elliott, 1960 1500m final. That said, Mau Mau Revolution was 1952 to 1960. Kenyan men were busy in 1960. In 1960, Kenyan men did not have time for bourgeois pursuits like chasing Olympic medals. Any Olympic medals for men 400m to 3000m SC & 4x400m relay before 1964 do not count.
sticks in craw wrote:
No. It doesn't even make the top 10.
A blowout, wire-to-wire 3:29 at the worlds champs doesn’t do it for you?
It’s easily in my top 10.
That link didn't work for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcTd4xZ44o
Yes, I think it has an argument for best ever.
No rabbits. Championship final after two prelims.
Literally wire-to-wire 3:29 with the best in the world in pursuit.
The rule is, you don't lead at a hard pace in a championship final no matter how good you are because there are at least a few people in the race that can hang with you and take advantage of drafting while you are taking on the full air resistance.
Plus the psychology of being chased vs following and keying off of a runner in front of you.
But no one could hang with him all the way and they never got the benefit drafting off of him.
It works when you are clearly the best and can mentally execute it.
El G used a countrymen to pace him to a 3:27 in the 1999 WC and still had trouble shaking Ngeny.
Yes it's absolutely racist on this board to suggest a non-black guy could run as fast as a black guy.
Wouldn't place it as best performance ever because El G's 3:26.00 is just ridiculously fast - only 2 people have run in the 3:26 range since. However, Tim's Doha run is the best championship effort I've seen - it's so much more exciting to watch a guy run hard from the gun than the usual 1200 jog 300 sprint final we see.
macdaddy wrote:
sticks in craw wrote:
No. It doesn't even make the top 10.
A blowout, wire-to-wire 3:29 at the worlds champs doesn’t do it for you?
It’s easily in my top 10.
Yeah. Trying to think of some of them:
El G's 3:26 WR
Morceli 3:27.37 WR
Ngeny 3:32 in Sydney to beat El G and Lagat
El G's 3:27 to win in 1999
El G 3:34 in Athens to beat Lagat
I think I take Tim's 3:29 with a 20m gap on the field the whole way above all those with the exception of maybe the WR. 3:29 solo might be worth near 3:26 in a paced race like El G always got set up with.
Coevett wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if the others had tried to go with him?
What about Herb Elliott's 3:35 at Rome in the 1960 final.?
He led.for half the race and won by 3 seconds.
If we convert 1 second a lap for cinders to Doha, and take another second off for shoes (conservative), that would be in the same ball park.
Elliot's time is good.
You brought up a better point though, in the discussion for GOAT 1500 is Keino's 3:34 at altitude, beating the best in the world by 3+ seconds.
This post was removed.
Coevett wrote:
Yes it's absolutely racist on this board to suggest a non-black guy could run as fast as a black guy.
It isn't racist. It's stupid. They're so far behind it's laughable. For anybody whining about drugs, drug testing in athletics didn't even get implemented in 1968, and even then, it was hilariously inadequate. They were testing for substances like alcohol, and unable to detect steroids, even though they all knew they were being used.
All you have to do is look at the women from the Eastern Block to know that for decades, steroid use was rampant beyond anything the East Africans could manage with EPO.
Looking at it from a different perspective, just take most major professional sports in the US. In the NFL, a massively disproportionate number of Samoans play. In the NBA, the vast majority of players are black. You really think that with these utterly disproportionate numbers, genetics tend not to be a factor?
East Africans are exceptional distance runners, just like West Africans are exceptional sprinters. Africans as a whole also tend to be objectively worse at most academic subjects compared to Western and East-Asian counterparts. Whether or not that part is genetic is up for debate, although any studies confirming it will instantly be shouted down or discredited. Yes, this is very racist. That doesn't make it any less true.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
If you’re looking for the most physiologically impressive 1500 performance, I’d have to take El Guerrouj’s 3:26.00 WR,
Well, two other people also ran 3:26 with rabbits.
And El G managed to run 3:26 himself on 5 different occasions.
I don't know if anyone else has come within 3 seconds of this 3:29.26 wire-to-wire race.
And in a championship setting after rounds.
It's hard to search for, since there is no stat of front running or wire-to-wire races.
sticks in craw wrote:
No. It doesn't even make the top 10.
Agreed
Seyta wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Yes it's absolutely racist on this board to suggest a non-black guy could run as fast as a black guy.
It isn't racist. It's stupid. They're so far behind it's laughable. For anybody whining about drugs, drug testing in athletics didn't even get implemented in 1968, and even then, it was hilariously inadequate. They were testing for substances like alcohol, and unable to detect steroids, even though they all knew they were being used.
All you have to do is look at the women from the Eastern Block to know that for decades, steroid use was rampant beyond anything the East Africans could manage with EPO.
Looking at it from a different perspective, just take most major professional sports in the US. In the NFL, a massively disproportionate number of Samoans play. In the NBA, the vast majority of players are black. You really think that with these utterly disproportionate numbers, genetics tend not to be a factor?
East Africans are exceptional distance runners, just like West Africans are exceptional sprinters. Africans as a whole also tend to be objectively worse at most academic subjects compared to Western and East-Asian counterparts. Whether or not that part is genetic is up for debate, although any studies confirming it will instantly be shouted down or discredited. Yes, this is very racist. That doesn't make it any less true.
Canova said Herb Elliott (and Jim Ryun) are the most talented 1500 runners of all time.
I have to agree with Bayi ‘s 1500m world record has to be the bravest, most successful front running effort ever. He front ran a 1500m in a championship race, at a suicidal pace, and Won and BROKE THE WORLD RECORD! 3.32.16
Gun to tape! World record. One of the greatest track performances ever, in any event.
Kip Keino 1968
El G vs Ngeny Sydney 2000 for the upset factor.