Secrets of Leo Daschbach's sub-4 training revealed. How would you rate these workouts?

i expect him to do big things in the future

Here before LateRunnerPhil tries to explain why this training is bad and why tinman training is better.

And some college coach will dump him into 80 mile weeks and we'll never hear from him again.

I like the moderate mileage with a focus on sprinting hard near max speed and regular weight training. 8x200m at those times is something you'd see more in 400m/800m types over milers. Also notice that he is spending regular time in the weight room, likely to build better posture, stability, and movement mechanics. This is what a proper HS training program should look like (maybe lower the volume a little for the less talented). A base of endurance work accented with hard workouts that focus on building comfortability at maximal effort. A senior that can run a 55s 400m in training while doing 40-50mpw is going be a way more valuable prospect than another athlete that runs 60-70mpw but can't break 60s for 400m, even if both athletes have similar PBs over long distances.

So many coaches and athletes fail to realize this. If a kid with dreams of competing in D1 distance cannot move himself at a proper sprint speed, he's going to get chewed out in college; regardless of how many miles he slaps his feet along the pavement. No slow, long mileage will make running consecutive sub-3min kilometers easier if the athlete's speed can only bring them to a 2:50 km in a time trial.

It’s not sprint speed that allows someone to run 2:50km comfortably. That’s aerobic power.

Right.

moderate mileage, hard workouts, proper recovery time after his workout days - i like it. interesting fact: except his 8x200 workout with about 1min of walking rest (a typical 800m workout) the other workouts are designed with a good amount of rest between the runs. most milers here prefer a quite short rest during their repeats at mile pace. i will have to think about it.

That 200 workout is something Canova (and probably many other coaches do as well) the last workout before a race, mile up to marathon. Good work Leo!

This all seems very similar to some of the workouts I would do leading up to my few sub 4/3:42s. All very sensible.If I was his coach, after that hard 800 followed by the hard 600, I would have known it right there that as long as he had a fair pacer in the first half allowing him to relax and then become engaged and hunting in the second half, he would be golden.

fact checker 642572498 wrote:

Here before LateRunnerPhil tries to explain why this training is bad and why tinman training is better.

“You see, this is essentially Tinman training...”

The key to that training block is the fast finish long run. Without the ability to roll into 4-5 miles at 5:20-5:10, none of those other workouts are possible. Through the late 80s, and all through the 90s, coaches were training their kids pretty much exactly like this, but with fewer overall miles and no hard long runs.

Maybe he could run 55's, but the ability to recover enough in between them and handle the whole session would be reduced.

The break down session? Not gonna happen without the solid aerobic base.

Han Solo wrote:

fact checker 642572498 wrote:

Here before LateRunnerPhil tries to explain why this training is bad and why tinman training is better.

“You see, this is essentially Tinman training...”

Give Hunter Leos training program and he runs 3:50 (straight up, no conversions needed)

I like the fast finish long run but doing it every week is kind of a lot. I also love his Sunday off. In HS you can afford to get mileage in and still rest and be greatly benefits from this.

400 workout is really impressive. Long rest is fine, I don’t really get the 500 jog, that’s really long, could easily just say 2,3,4 minutes and have him jog a min or two to flush some crap out. What I don’t like about long distance recoveries is in my day I could have done the 500 jog in 2:15 or 5:15 depending on how I’m feeling or the intensity of workout, it’s not consistent.

I like that he’s a mid D guy but running about 50 mpw with 4 clear aerobic days that’s a really good sign especially in track season. Will allow him to ratchet the speed up going forward, he doesn’t need to build more than 10 mpw for the rest of his career. Also his 149 is really impressive, but interestingly enough he’s not blasting those 200s. If he keeps developing the speed until he can run 24,25,26 for all of them he will make great gains

SalmonRice wrote:

A senior that can run a 55s 400m in training while doing 40-50mpw is going be a way more valuable prospect than another athlete that runs 60-70mpw but can't break 60s for 400m, even if both athletes have similar PBs over long distances.

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Sure. But it isn't like the 2nd kid had the choice of being the first kid. The difference between those 2 kids isn't training. It is genetics. Distance runner speed training isn't turning many kids from a 60+ to a 55s. Everyone wants to be a bobby kennedy who is runnninng a 52s 400, 35mpw and winning Kinney. Or Justyn Knnight running a 13:37 on 40mpw. Or not many people have that level of talent.

As far as this training? For 2 weeks prior to race, it looks pretty standard. But the important training is the 10 weeks before this. And lift is far too generic to comment on.

This kid is going to do more in college than Young.

I see this guy potentially being a future Olympian. He’s not maxing out mileage yet and he is still on a steady Improvement curve.

He’s the perfect example of when talent meets hard and smart work and he’s gonna be crazy fast in college.

wisenheimer at work wrote:

moderate mileage, hard workouts, proper recovery time after his workout days - i like it. interesting fact: except his 8x200 workout with about 1min of walking rest (a typical 800m workout) the other workouts are designed with a good amount of rest between the runs. most milers here prefer a quite short rest during their repeats at mile pace. i will have to think about it.

A lot of really successful mid-distance coaches do advocate hard, long intervals with long rest. Canova and Warhurst come to mind as coaches who use a lot of time trials or long interval workouts with long recovery, things like 3X1000m w ~6 mins rec for milers from Canova and time trials followed by shorter intervals from Warhurst.

Looks like he's got a solid foundation all around. Keep the progressions going an he'll be hard to beat in a few years.

6x400 in 56 indicates to me he is in better shape than 3:59. He also went 2:02.x, 1:56.x, another reason to think he could go 3:57ish.