I had always understood that it basically goes base phase, long slow mileage, then you throw in some VO2 max stuff and intervals, and finally speed workouts to get you real fast and peak for most important race. Then I read Daniels, and it seems like his was base, then speed, then VO2 max intervals in order to peak, is that the order of a training season for most coaches/athletes? The first seems far more intuitive and logical to me but idk.
Base, speed, then V02 max/lactate threshold.
The idea is you want to add one stressor at a time.
You do the base mileage to build your foundation.
Next is speed (200s, 300s, 400s) to work on running economy/efficiency. You’re adding the stress of speed.
Next is a combination of threshold and V02 max workouts. If you skipped the speed phase, then you’re adding two stressors are one time (speed and lactate clearing or speed and max oxygen consumption). These workouts will feel easier after a speed phase because you have already run faster than the paces needed for these workouts. Maybe you were doing 400s in 75 seconds in the speed phase. Now you might be doing 1600 repeats averaging 82 seconds per 400.
You can still sprinkle in speed workouts during the lactate threshold/V02 max phase.
The speed phase prepares you for the lactate threshold and V02 max workouts. Without it, you may get injured due to poor running economy or the workouts will simply be too hard for you because you’re adding two stressors at the same time.
jackdanielsquestion wrote:
I had always understood that it basically goes base phase, long slow mileage, then you throw in some VO2 max stuff and intervals, and finally speed workouts to get you real fast and peak for most important race. Then I read Daniels, and it seems like his was base, then speed, then VO2 max intervals in order to peak, is that the order of a training season for most coaches/athletes? The first seems far more intuitive and logical to me but idk.
All of the most successful training systems have 3 factors in common. The paces that tangents maxVO2 pace, lactate threshold pace and aerobic power pace ( Long Steady Distance). All of the systems also follows the principle ; effort + recovery = supercompensation .
The difference in the systems lies mostly in if it`s a high mileage or low mileage system and if a linear or phase system .
Most phase systems keeps (sprint)speed alive in all phases but more emphasized in the sharpening phase and race phase. This when we mainly talk about distances 800m- 5k and less really fast speed workouts when we talk about distances 10 k - marathon when the aerobic demand is essentially crucial.
It helps to think of it backwards:
What is the race I want to perform well in?
What workouts will be most beneficial when I peak?
What workouts will I have to do to be ready for that peak phase?
What baseline fitness do I need to start doing those workouts?
At no point did anyone mention what races they are running....
Running economy is very specific to the speeds you have trained at...
There is not and should not be one size meets all training formula...
Sometimes in order to go forward you have to go backwards. Lore of Running contains a very nice background on how training and training dogma has changed over time...
In a general sense you follow some sort of periodization. Linear, Nonlinear, whatever floats your boat. The principles of progression, overload, and adaptation never change....only the specifics in how you apply them.
A correct workout for you might not be the correct for someone else. Likewise, the correct workout for you is likely not going to be the correct workout for you next time under the same conditions. The body is always adapting.
Alan
The next person who mentions training at vVO2max or lactate threshold gets a remote thrown at my TV :)
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
At no point did anyone mention what races they are running....
Alan
JS did?
Any and every variation works and no one method is the correct way.
The most important thing is being able to run. A. Lot.
Thank you all great information, to clear up I was talking mostly about any training for anything from mile to 5k, but it seems like most understood. I had read somewhere that aerobic capacity increases almost infinitely and has a higher ceiling, whereas speed has a very limiting ceiling based on genetics and most of genetic potential is very quickly after maybe 3 weeks, so knowing that it seems like speed would come at the end and you increase aerobic capacity throughout the entire way. But I guess the base phase helps with that. Actually idk does the base phase improve VO2 max? And wouldn’t it make sense to put another small phase of speed development at the end, it seems like one would reap a lot of benefits from this because race pace would then be a lower percentage of max speed, thus improving economy, is this already something that coaches do? Shower me with your knowledge please