50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

dhaaga, congrats on a great 1 mile time!

amkelley, good to hear you are "mechanically" improving!

My weekly report:

One workout this week and one race. 26 miles altogether with easy ones.

Workout (Tue): 4 x 4:35-4:40 on a trail, hard.

Race: Moscow 10K NightRun on the Sat/Sun night.

I don’t like this kind of overcrowded events: fireworks, laser shows, rock bands, teams of pseudo-runners dressed like clowns – all this seems unnecessary for a sport event. But OK, if it is for fun and 6+K participants even paid for that, why not? Also, many local elite runners attended< and some finished under 29.

I have been invited by a team of young guys I am dealing with at my work and preferred not to look arrogant.

The weather was nearly perfect (except for humidity after a hot day and a pouring rain in the evening) and I expected to have a good result, but all the hopes broke into pieces just after the start (at 11:15 p.m.). Though the organizers arranged the crowd into clusters, pulling through slow runners took about a mile and after I saw 4:12 (instead of planned 3:55) at the 1 km mark, it became clear that the run for a result made no sense. But more
disappointing thoughts came later. After the crowd more or less dispersed I settled a cruise speed by feel and expected it to be about 3:57-3:58/km (6:21-6:23/mi). To my surprise, it was 6:32/mi. When I pressed a little bit to 6:26 I felt the level of resistance that should not be at a 10K pace and pulled back to 6:33-6:34. This pace was maintainable and after 8 km I even added some pressure and the final 1 km was at the 6:10 pace.
So, the finish time was 40:47 (with 20:30 at the 5 km split).

Thinking about this bad result I wonder if the time of the day/night can make such a significant impact? I am indeed not a midnight runner (worker, dancer, etc. etc) at all. Prefer to go to bed after 10:30 p.m. and get up early. Was it my body that resisted against such an
experiment on it and engaged brakes that cost me some 8-10 sec/mi? Or am I simply losing the form after the first peak?

I wish happy and injury-free running to all!

ATP, wow, what a great news! My sincere congratulations! Hope it is worth a gold medal in Tampere!

Orient, I've never tried to run a midnight race, and if you haven't done so before either, I'd think it's no surprise to find you don't run well at that time. Back when I was a runner I ran almost exclusively in the early morning, training before breakfast and racing strictly in road races that normally started early. The one time I tried to run the Boston Marathon, which had a very late start, I crashed early on and DNF'd. However, there was one local 4-mile race that started at something like 6 pm and I ran very well there a couple of times despite feeling like complete crap right up until the starting gun. So it's hard to say, but I wouldn't worry about a sub-par performance at midnight.

Still counting my good fortunes here with 100% healthy running! Hopefully I'm being smarter by running mostly steady moderate miles in the 8:00 pace range, and taking some very easy days when needed. And running fast only when I feel like it...

So I've now got a nice 4 week streak of 57 mile weeks going. Highlights over the past few weeks have been:

6 x 1000 3:42.4, 3:40.7, 3:40.4 then 4 x 200 40.9,39.1,39.3,38.7

Weekly 8x20 sec strides around 5:35 pace

Yesterdays 11 miler @ 7:30 pace. Last three were close to my tempo zone in 709, 705, 652

Things have been going well but I'm not sure how that will play out in a race. The 1000's may indicate a low 18's 5k. I've got a Friday night 5k this week but the course is not the fastest. There is about a 600 yd stretch on a golf course then a 1/2 mile climb to 2 miles. But the last mile is a nice gradual downgrade all the way to the finish. So I just want to get to 2 miles in decent shape then let gravity take over! And of course they're calling for 87 degrees Friday.

On a personal sidenote I completed my 1961 Topps Baseball card set this week. That makes 1960, 1961 and 1968-2021 complete! Oh well, it comes me young at heart...

Have a good run,

Dave

Edit * 3 x 1000 *

On CoQ10, I know there is a supplement for thoroughbreds which increases type IIb muscle fiber (fast twitch variant) over type I (slow twitch).

Looks like the same with humans according to this study.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cellular redox activity of coenzyme Q10: effect of CoQ10 supplementation on human skeletal muscle - PubMed

In this paper, we report results obtained from a continuing clinical trial on the effect of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) administration on human vastus lateralis (quadriceps) skeletal muscle. Muscle samples, obtained from aged indivi...

Link:pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12069109/

Sun 3 - Jog, couple of strides

Mon 4 - Butte to Butte 5k, first 50+ in 19:49.

Tue, Wed, Thur, Friday - Off

Sat 9 - 7 miles in 50:49 (7:15 pace) including 3x2000m (8:48. 8:58. 8:59) with 1000m/5 min easy run recovery + strides

Sun 10 - 8 miles in 59:46 (7:28 pace). Was Ok until hitting 13 mile headwind for last 1.5 which slowed things a bit!

World Record: congratulations ATP and team!

Continuing to quietly accumulate ks with short easy stuff.

Mon. 15 min mtb ride, changed shoes then ran 3 x Melville Lookout steep single track 500 metre hill. Total 3.9 km 280 m elevation gain 39 mins. (Captain Melville was a famous 19th C highwayman). Back on the bike for a 38 min ride.

Tue. 34 min cold windy kayak. Hilly 13 km mtb ride (30kph winds) 44 min. Cruised a hilly 5km run in 30 mins.

Wed. 5.7 km steep singletrack run 150m elevation gain 39 mins. Brisk 12+km mtb ride in 33 mins.

Thu. 34 min cold windy kayak. 5.3 km run in 32 mins then 35 min mtb spin in the dark.

Fri. 300 plus kms of driving, my wife and I took my 96 yo mum to the pub for lunch. Late home squeezed in 10.7 km mtb ride with headlamp in 31 min then 5 km run in 30 min.

Sat. Rugged 15 km mtb ride in 52 mins then rugged trail 5 km run 130 m elevation gain in 36 mins.

Sun. I was going to cruise club race but was needed as a timekeeper. Went out after for a run of 5.8 kms with 250m elevation gain. 41 mins.

Nothing hard or fast but I am moving more freely and a bit quicker. We are heading to Western Australia for 3 weeks on the 18th. No bike or kayak. Probably lots of hiking mixed with the short runs.

Been absent from the thread for 6 weeks. Injuries dominated this period and I decided to internalize the struggle as I always do. It started with my calf freezing during a fast 2 mile interval. It seemed that getting out a bed was risky after this minor injury. I had mild cuts from my trail running that got infected, hip pain, a huge worm bite, and many other issues I can't remember.

I know from past calve freezes that road running wasn't an option and trained exclusively on the treadmill at 15% inclines. I recovered in about a month then got a bad case of Covid. All my friends and family had mild Covid experiences and this was a little frustrating. Positive side is I lost 5-10 lbs. My first run after Covid lasted about 2 miles before my hip severely cramped and this set me back another 2 weeks.

I've been fortunate and after reading the challenges many face on this thread, I realize how minor my struggles are and I will be back running good times soon enough. Signed up for a roller coaster half marathon next month and expect to do OK. The tough route will probably add 30 seconds to my pace but will be a fun challenge. Probably about 1000 runners and a little prize money for the top three so a podium finish won't be happening but want to win the 55+ AG. There is a 2:43 marathon guy that has been beating me of late but never in anything less than a marathon and if he shows up, he will probably be slightly faster.

Old Guy II and ATP - you both are an inspiration. The times you both have been running of late are extraordinary. You both have put in the hard work but wondering how much you contribute to luck? I doubt I will be still capable of 90% AG adjusted times in 15 years. Too many bad things seem to happen to me but maybe I’ll get wiser with age.
Cavorty and Rtype - Great times!
Orient - Don’t worry about the race. I’ve had awful races that made no sense. I was fit and thought I could possibly PR and yet put in a 110% effort and was minutes off my PR times. Too many variables to figure out what happened. Now if it happens the next couple of races then it might be time to rethink your training.

There are a couple of reasons why I do my mixed run/walk days. These days are almost always "recovery" days rather than "effort" days. For the past several years I have payed reasonably close attention to my heart rate levels in my training. I found that I run fairly efficiently near my threshold pace and very inefficiently at a very slow "recovery" pace. My average heart rate for my 400 run/walk repeats stays lower than my average heart rate at slow continuous running, and I get some running in that is closer to my natural stride. I do very easy acceleration into, and very easy deceleration out of the running intervals.

Moving on to ATP's report, getting four 70+ guys to average about 2:39 per 800 is spectacularly good. Congratulations to you all! As to Big Mango's question of how much of my current running success I attribute to luck, I would have to say that there is a healthy element of that. While I certainly have put in steady work on my running and maintaining a healthy lifestyle over the years, as they say, "you can't pick your parents." My genetics of being built well for distance running (5'8", 126lbs) and better than average aerobic capacity made me a good but not great runner in my younger days. My apparent durability in my joints and connective tissue have made me a comparatively better runner in my old age. I seem to be able to sustain a slightly higher volume of running training than most of my peers with less overuse injury risk. So far, I don't seem to have fallen off a "performance cliff" yet like some others have. My performance decline continues to be gradual. I try to take good care of it, but I was definitely lucky to be born with a good running body.

P.S. I saw in the results of the Masters Worlds 10k that the top three in the 70+ age group ran -
1.John Bermingham, Australia, 39:37
2.Robert Qualls, United States of America, 39:44
3.Cees Stolwijk, Netherlands, 40:01

All very impressive times.

OGII,

Yes, very interesting. I was monitoring this Tampere event attentively, too.

Still think that ATP would win 10K in his AG. He recently reported results faster than the current winner. Not sure about HM, but would get silver for sure.

Also noticed that the M60 HM winner was considerably slower than Coyote Montane 3 years ago.

Great people here, on this thread!

Old Guy II, thank you for your reply. Combining a low(er) HR with an efficient "fast" stride is good food for thought. An additional question, if you please: how did you get to bouts of 400m - what guided you to this length ?

Thanks and have a good day

I think it is important to bear in mind that the 10k and HM came at the end of the championships and many already had several races in their legs. I have some good individual times, but not strung together. I plan to concentrate on the track over the summer (but I may now have peaked mentally) and then move to the road in the autumn. After that, who knows? Perhaps an indoor season. I am tempted to try an indoor championship, but covid and travel difficulties deter me.

Hey ATP - Old Guy II a few posts above told us his weight and height (5'8'- 126 lbs -19.2 BMI). I bet all the 60+ crowd here that is still healthy and can handle the rigors of hard training have BMI's below 20. If it isn't too personal, what is your BMI? My BMI is 22.6 but I know I can lower it a point or two.

My BMI is currently 19.6. I would like to reduce it to below 19, but I am very conscious of avoiding relative energy deficiency problems so it probably won't happen anytime soon. Besides, I enjoy my food :)

No idea on BMI, but at about 5ft 8 1/2 in, I ran my best 800m - 3000m races in my 20s at about 148-150 lb, which is relatively heavy.

I realized at 65 and going up in distance, and with loss of muscle mass, I needed to be lighter, and am probably more like 145 lb now (was 142 lb after an 8 mile session today, the lightest I remember seeing for a long, long time, but obviously a fair bit of that is water weight loss).

Another summer week in the books.

Mo 7 miles easy

Tu off, felt tired

We 30min jumps and drills uphill, 6x60m flat

Th 7 miles easy

Fr 3 miles tempo at 6:40 mpm

Sa 7 miles recovery

Su 4x100m buildups with walk back, 6x400m in 85s with 400m jog, 4x100m cut down with walk the bend

Good week to all!