50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Cavorty: Good luck in the 5K. According to Mr. Jack Daniels that 12:28 time trial translates to a 19:58 5K
MagicShoes: That was a good week! Good luck on the 2nd

Mon = 50 min easy, flat, paved greenway. Everything sore from hike Sat
Tue = 60 min easy on flat, paved greenway.
Wed = 65 min easy, flat, paved greenway
Thr = 68 min easy, flat, paved greenway + road
Fri = Every Fri off
Sat = 69 min easy, flat, paved greenway
Sun = 69 min easy, flat, paved greenway + road

I had some residual soreness from the hike last Saturday. Seemed like everything was out of whack. Jeez, that was a stupid decision. Thankfully I seemed to shuffle my way out of it. Limp and learn….

Have a good one!

Glad to hear you're bouncing back quickly. Good week on my end aside from my new work-assigned laptop proving to be a lemon (typing this on a loaner) -- then again, maybe its habit of crashing during zoom meetings was a blessing in disguise?

M 1:45 + 30:00 x-t

Tu 2:20 with 25:00 at marathon pace (or about 15 sec/mile slower; kind of flat)

W 1:15

Th 1:20 double with drills/strides

F 1:10 with 5 X 2:30 medium-hard uphills (jog down)

Sa 1:25

Su 1:00 + 1:00 x-t with national championships watching yet to come

Have a great week,

Dave

My taper for my July 4th 10k seems to be going OK this week. I ran a pre-Covid 42:25 for the same race in 2019. I'll be very happy if I can match that time. 33 mostly easy miles this week

M- 6mi walk

T- 4mi walk

W- 8mi 400 walk/400 run

Th- 3mi of heart rate run until 135bpm, then walk until 120bpm, repeat

F- off

S- 6mi trails with my son 8:14/mi

Su- 6mi of walk with a ~60m stride every 400

Good running to all!

It looks like we will be getting our first spell of heat next week. I had a surprise visit from Socal Cush and his lovely wife. It was fun to connect in person. We had dinner and I gave them a quick tour of Downtown Boise. As for training, this was my first week in sometime; perhaps even six months. I am listening closely to Charlie’s advice to ease into it. Totals in 9 sessions were: 11 miles walking, 5 miles running, 1:30 spin bike, and 2,500 yards swimming. That would be 32.5 of my “Igy miles.” I will lean toward increasing the volume in non-running activities, while slowly adding intensity. Seems a reasonable plan for this soon to be 72 year old.

Have a good week.

Igy

Greetings!

Newbi, share your feelings about training in parallel with a stressful work. My permanent situation, too.

Cavorty, again - you are pretty ready to be well below the 20 min bar. Just be confident, and good luck.

My week was nothing special, but am happy that nothing popped out in terms of injuries and other health troubles.

Mon: 5 miles easy, but 2 times (1 km each) checked the “leg health status” (after the 10K race 2 days ago) by accelerating up to 4:25 min/km (7:07 min/mi) and 4:10 min/km (6:45 min/mi). Legs were quite “loaded”, but not dead at all.

Tue: off

Wed: 6 miles with a 5K tempo on a trail in the middle. Half way out at 11:12 and the second half on the way back at 10:25. Assuming that that trail adds some 12-15 sec/km vs fast road at the same effort, it was something between a 5K and CV pace/effort.

Thu: off

Fri: 7 miles easy

Sat: 6 miles, an interval session on a trail. Planned to have 4 x 4:35-4:40 with 2 min jog in between. The result was 4:42, 4:35, 4:30, 4:37. The fastest time was due to some extra effort involved after I saw two backs at the last quarter of the lap. A guy and a girl running slowly some 100-150 m ahead of me. I wondered who were they because it was in the middle of a very hot day (85-86F) while joggers usually run in the morning or late evening and not that far in the woods. I passed them, closed the lap and, when they approached, talked to them. They turned out to be (a new) staff of the local NASA office and that was the answer to the question about the temperature. I assume, 85F is a comfortable pre-/post-summer weather for guys in Houston, while we, northern folks, start melting.

Sun: 5 miles easy

So, helas, low mileage again and again. Only 29 this week. However, 24% of them were very fast (faster LT pace).

Have a great week!

Recovery week 6 was like the last 5. Feel good .

Good Stuff:

67… cancer.. 3 knee surgeries.. colectomy

mon: off

tue: am 5 mi am 3 miles

wed: fartlek 5 miles

thurs: 5.2 mi

fri: fartlek 5 miles

sat: 5.5 miles

sun: 8.3 miles

Having problems from my belly button on down. Pain. Whether it is scar tissue from the colectomy I had in 2013 or damage from the HIFU treatment for my prostate cancer in 2019, that area is a war zone. Pelvic pain, adhesions? Something from one of the lower abdominal surgeries? Oh well.. I’ll keep training.

I have two races coming up, one on July 2nd, 18 minutes from my house then another, my clubs race on July 4th about an hour away. I admire runners who can mentally withstand races and sometimes multiple races every weekend. For 47 years, it takes everything I’ve got to handle the all important race. The stress, the constant thinking about making everything right from sleep to diet to tapering… The day before a race is always and has for decades always been like mentally it’s t minus 5-4-3-2-1 and blastoff!!! Just the stress. How do these great runners handle it, deflate and come right back a day or two later and start that process all over?

man, not me. I gotta work on that. Wait a minute. No, I don’t, I’m close to fading off in the sunset!!! Ha

Just saw the results of KPs Hayward Field 800. Take it! I would any day...

Still riding my current wave of being 100% healthy! It's a good feeling.

The past two weeks I logged back-to-back 57+ mile weeks. Mostly just solid running. My Saturday longer runs are going well. Last week was 10.5 @ 7:41. This week I felt surprisingly good on Saturdays 10 mile run. First seven went 802,748,742,733,720,712,706, then made it to my current tempo zone for the last three in 700,652 & 645. Other than that it was all comfortable, pain free running. Today marked 4 weeks without a day off so I'm due any day now!

I entered my next race, a 5K on Friday evening June 15. A long time road and trail race at my junior college, Southwestern Michigan. I seem to always run pretty well there so I'm hoping my good fortune continues this year.

Thinking about a set of 1000's this week. Trying to get together with my old training partner who moved a few years ago. We had a lot of killer workouts over the past 15 years but have only run together a couple times since he moved. 99.99% of my miles the past few years have been by myself!

That's it from here. Have a good run,

Dave

SMC home of Ron Gunn. Took my Barton County team there for the Juco Marathon in 1981. Wife and I drove up from central Kansas. Beautiful country.

I do recall you speaking of your Dowagiac days. Quite a cross country course around campus at the time.

Converting Reliable VO2 Numbers to Race Performance Predictions/Equivalents?

I need some you other oldsters to help me here, please.

I am putting it all out there with full disclosure and no hype. I am posting here, as the open forum can get toxic quickly.

Caveat, what follows is lengthy post...

Last week, I completed my second VO2 Max test at a major local university using the state of
the art equipment. (I am part of a no fee study group).

My first test 90 days ago was a VO2 Max 57.4. Last week I was 59.2 with the same protocol; I
went :57 seconds longer, had slightly lower lactate measurements, and lower average heart rate.

Personal information:

-BMI 19.3, BF 13.7% using reliable DEXA measurements. 65.5 y/o, training 40-45 miles per week (down from 50s last year, but with fewer junk miles).
-18-21% of total mileage quality: evenly spread over seven day cycles.
-Hard easy rotation- using a combination of hard up tempo (actually using a local ParkRun that basically passes as a 21st century a cross country course with dirt paths and three decent hills), light intervals 200m-1200m, and 150m strides. (a few other hills and some fartlek mixed in).
-Light core with 6:00 planks with good form.

-Healthy diet, well fueled and hydrated, and rested.

-I THINK I know how to taper and race, but was never and am not ”fast”. Close to 50 years of running and racing experience. Age graded numbers are all significantly better than in my prime in either in my early 20s or as a early masters runner at age 40.

All good so far...
Using the Jack Daniels calculator and tables as well as other charts say with a 59.2 VO2
number I should be able to run a 17:15 5K and a 5:14 mile. Hahahahahah... There is no way in heck, I can hit those numbers again - those are times I ran about 25 years ago. and would be 'world class' (95%+) equivalents today. Now even under good conditions, I have to have almost ideal conditions to hit 20:30 and a sub 6:00 mile. In a 2022 world I think I am doing 'okay' – In last night's (Sunday) 84 degrees 5K race, even though I went out just a touch fast on a twisty turning course, I managed second male out of 35 male masters over age 40, but the time as with the Parkruns the time just wasn't there IMO. (no taper just five very easy early early Saturday morning).

Masters T&F Nationals in Kentucky is in four weeks away. I am entered in the 5000m on Thursday and the 1500m on Saturday.

I really don't care a ton about making the podium, although a sub 20:00 and 5:30 could do it is
the planets aligned. I would really like to hit some good times. I DO realize champanionship meets/races are about place finishes and not all about times, but this may be my best hope for fast times this year.

I have a road mile in a week (Fourth of July) and a couple more ParkRuns scheduled between now and the end of July.

MY question (see I do have one!); What can I do to maximize my performances in Kentucky
and come close to a sub 20:00 5K and 5:30 1500m (converts to a sub 6:00 mile)?

Thanks in advance.

I would say with weeks away “don’t screw up” should be the operative thought: 1) don’t add new training modalities, 2) do add sufficient yet moderated race pace effort, 3) keep volume near present level, 4) more important to get sufficient rest the week before, and too much rest can leave you sluggish (revisit #3).

I don't think there is a tremendous amount you can do in that short a period, especially since one of those weeks to go is a taper week.

I think the biggest would be to increase efficiency. Fast strides with long recovery. Some short hill sprints. But obviously those things would have to be done with caution.

I'm somewhat similar. Another 65-year-old and Garmin has my V02 max at 61, and says I should be able to run a 17:42 5k (I can't).

The V02 max is probably legit, I was lab tested at 72 when I was 46.

I've run 11:33 for 3000m this year, and 20:08 on an undulating course, and am trying to break 20:00 for 5k on a flat course on July 4 (ran 12:28 for a solo 2 miles on road 8 days ago).

I think V02 max conversions are iffy at the best of times - biomechanical efficiency is a huge variable that it doesn't take account of - and I think it's even further off for older runners, due to the loss of power relative our younger days (which also equal lower efficiency). So, what we could have done with a 60ish max at 25 is different from what we can do at 65.

Thanks. Another consideration would be 5k race day heat and humidity in Lexington.

Thank you Cavorty, Newbi, and Ghost.

Good though. I go to Lexington frequently for the thoroughbred sales - it can be miserable in late July.

Since it's a championship, I think you have to race for the place not the time under those circumstances....

Greetings!

Two workouts this week. An interval session on a trail on Tue, 4 x 4:35-4:45 and a 6.5K tempo today that was ran “within” a regional 10K race.

As I have signed for a fun night 10K race on July 9 (some 4K participants), running another 10K all out just one week before would not let nearly 64-year-old muscles recover. So, I decided to stick to my 10K pace but quit at about 6.5K. Looks like this point is somewhat critical (at least for me) in a 10K race. Either have to struggle if start too fast, or have to “throw some more coal to the engine” to accelerate if it feels OK. In both cases the fatigue accumulates significantly.
The course was the slowest among those I usually run in my area: hilly (some 50 m total climb on a 5K loop) with many turns. The organizers wanted the crowd to run through some historical places around the local “mini Vatican” area so they staged 4 U-turns along the 5K loop. And 10 (!) tight L-turns to enter/exit from “narrow streets of cobblestone”. The heat was also a contributing factor: though the start was removed to 9 a.m. instead of 12, it was already some 70+F and no clouds. Nevertheless, closed the first 5K loop at 20:12, then continued downhill for some 600 m and then some 1000 m uphill at the same effort. Every
now and then was asking myself if I could continue with this pace/effort until 10K and when the answer changed from “yes” to “don’t know”, switched to the cool-down mode. The guys I was comfortably running with finished around 90-95th of the 990 finished. Hope the recovery will be short.

Happy and injury-free running to all!

5K at 5K feet. 6:16, 12:27, 18:32--19:06, tough 60+ bunch with 3 under 19:10.

WMAs in Finland, Rick Lee and Dan King 1-2 in XC, Nat Larson, Lee, King 2-4-5 in 5000 m. I had hoped to go but by spring decided against it (both finances and fitness!).