Cavorty,
I think you are over-conservative regarding your 3K capability. Based on your recent impressive 3x1k 3:44-3:48, I thought you would have target 11:20-11:25 at least. Or even faster depending on a) how did you feel after this interval and b) how optimally can you control adrenaline before the race.
Good luck and fresh legs!
Orient wrote:
Cavorty,
I think you are over-conservative regarding your 3K capability. Based on your recent impressive 3x1k 3:44-3:48, I thought you would have target 11:20-11:25 at least. Or even faster depending on a) how did you feel after this interval and b) how optimally can you control adrenaline before the race.
Good luck and fresh legs!
I probably am a little conservative, but have done nothing much fast for quite a while, I'm a bit low on the confidence, although it is growing a bit as I've been surprised.
Until I did the 2000m time trial four weeks ago, I hadn't run under 3:00 min for 800m for several years (injury and then just doing steady running, and longer reps), so was pretty surprise how the 800s and 1000s went. The first two 1000s I was actually easing down a bit as I was a fair bit inside the pace I had targeted. The last one I worked a bit, but I could go straight on into a warm-down without a break. HR was nowhere near max.
The b) part is a challenge, as I've had times where I've had far too much adrenaline, far too far in advance of the race!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Greetings!
Ran my first race since Oct. ‘21 this morning. It was a sort of a local ParkRun. Was not sure about my form, therefore signed for 5K (there were also 10K, HM and full M options).
Two laps about 2.3 km each and one small c.a. 400 m. The weather was surprisingly cold, only +3C (38F), rare snowflakes. Ran in thick thermo.
Thought that if I started struggling, it would not be for too long as compared with 10K. Considered 19:30 as a target, based on my 5x1K interval workout 2 weeks ago. Did not plan to “die”, neither hard, nor soft.
Had 8:39 after the first lap and started calculating what the pace was it. It took some time for my feeble mind to do the arithmetics and when I learned that the pace was 3:45/кm got
scared and decided to slow down being afraid of hitting the wall quite soon.
The second lap felt easier though it was only 11 sec slower (17:30 altogether). The last 400
were at a further slower pace since I knew I would be well faster the target time. Finished at 19:03. Quite satisfied with the result. A year ago the first 5K was at 19:10.
Perhaps it would be of interest for some how cross-training worked in my case. To avoid/alleviate injuries I switched from running to XC-skiing on Nov. 30 (elliptical was also used) and ran only about 170 miles since that (in 6 months). The only rust-busting period was the previous two weeks at a sea resort where I did some good hill tempos and intervals.
Nice weekend and happy running to all!
Nice running Orient. You can look forward to summer racing. Best greetings eastwards.
Orient wrote:
Greetings!
Ran my first race since Oct. ‘21 this morning. It was a sort of a local ParkRun. Was not sure about my form, therefore signed for 5K (there were also 10K, HM and full M options).
Two laps about 2.3 km each and one small c.a. 400 m. The weather was surprisingly cold, only +3C (38F), rare snowflakes. Ran in thick thermo.
Thought that if I started struggling, it would not be for too long as compared with 10K. Considered 19:30 as a target, based on my 5x1K interval workout 2 weeks ago. Did not plan to “die”, neither hard, nor soft.
Had 8:39 after the first lap and started calculating what the pace was it. It took some time for my feeble mind to do the arithmetics and when I learned that the pace was 3:45/кm got
scared and decided to slow down being afraid of hitting the wall quite soon.
The second lap felt easier though it was only 11 sec slower (17:30 altogether). The last 400
were at a further slower pace since I knew I would be well faster the target time. Finished at 19:03. Quite satisfied with the result. A year ago the first 5K was at 19:10.Perhaps it would be of interest for some how cross-training worked in my case. To avoid/alleviate injuries I switched from running to XC-skiing on Nov. 30 (elliptical was also used) and ran only about 170 miles since that (in 6 months). The only rust-busting period was the previous two weeks at a sea resort where I did some good hill tempos and intervals.
Nice weekend and happy running to all!
Great run. Would love to get down into that range.
Interesting with the x-training. My sister, who is 62, only runs 4 times a week, does no long runs, but does a lot of water-running (she's qualified to teach it). She was in the top 10 in the World Masters Rankings last year at 400m, 800m, and a mile, and her 5k road-time would have also been in the top 10 at 5000m.
Hi fellows,
training was:
Mo 7 miles recovery, 5x100m with jog back
Tu 30 min jumps and drills uphill, 6x60m uphill
We 7 miles recovery, 5x100m with jog back
Th off, nice walking in spring
Fr 7 miles easy, 5x100m with jog back
Sa 4x100m with walk back, 6x200m with 200m slow walk in about 3 min. No. 1 to 5 were 32 s flat. No. 6 was 29.9 s😀
Su 1.5 h recovery hilly
After returning to track in April, it turned out that I need one day per week without any running. It felt best to skip my endurance/stamina workout on Thursday before the track session on Saturday. Will wait until the soreness after track running diminishes. Then, I will restart endurance/stamina work on Thursday little by little. In the meanwhile, I am going to build up some so called anaerobic speed reserve...
Have fun, stay healthy, take care. BR
Orient: good sharing of your local race result.
Newbi: good week for you. A day off once each week has been a part of my being healthy.
My week was a quiet advanced recovery week:
M 5M @ 11:30 pace
T 30:00 treadmill @ 13:00 pace
W 6M @ 10:00 pace; last two uphill @ 9:30 pace
Th off
F 5.5M @ 10:43 pace
Sat 10M Mystery Loop (lots of big uphills - 800’ elevation gain) @ 9:45 pace
enjoy the week
M62, 5'11", 174 lbs
Age 23: 16:05, 2:40:30
Age 43: 17:10, 2:56:03
Age 58: 18:58, 3:07:26
RACE CALENDAR
May 7: Half Marathon
May 29: Marathon
APRIL 25 - MAY 1, 2022
M - Off
Tu- 5.0 miles (9:12/mi out, 8:45 back)
W - Off
Th- 3 mi warm-up; 3 x 1-mile w/5-min jog recoveries (7:04, 6:57, 6:46); 3 mi cool-down
Fr - Off
Sa - 10.0 miles (8:34/mi out, 8:10 back)
Su - Off
TOTAL: 24.3 MILES
Thursday was my first "workout" in a long while. Nice to see a couple "6-somethings" -- offers some hope for sub-8 pace for the half-marathon this Saturday.
Run well.
Charlie... thx for the Super Comp article.
I'm likely exactly on the edge of overtraining right now - 2 weeks before Senior Nats 800/1500. My last five workouts were ALL killers across only 15 Days leading me to border-line injured glute/hammy, fatigue, lack of top speed, sleep deprived, anxiety for just about everything (who's not these days), etc, etc.
And so after a mediocre semi-aborted track session this past Thursday reckon it is time to rest, recover (fingers crossed), taper, and maybe a couple more speed sessions with loads of rest intervals. Accepting all suggestions.
FYI Thursday was...
600 1:52 400 71 200 34
600 1:49 200 33 200 33
FYI Monday was...
600 1:51 400 76 400 76
600 1:49 400 80! 400 80!
200 36! 200 35!
Greetings, all. It's been a while.
Big news this week is that I won a 5K outright yesterday. That's unusual for a 64 y.o., and it's especially unusual with a 24:28. But yes. The Cotton Classic in Greenville, Mississippi has a 10K, a 5K, a 5K walk, and a couple of fun runs for the kiddies. The 10K had some cash prizes, so all the fast runners entered that.
I was one of 17 entrants. By a couple of minutes in, I was side by side with a younger man--he was 35; we traded that info--chasing the leader, who was 50 yards ahead and turned out to be 58. "He's a vet," my compatriot said.
I eased away and passed the leader just before the one-mile point. 35 caught up with me at 1.2. We traded the lead for the next mile. He was inexperienced, so he'd surge when he felt good and fade when it began to hurt. I just ran. At 2.2 he suddenly....stopped. And I was alone, chasing the lead vehicle. I glanced over my shoulder at 2.5 and there was nobody. I eased off the throttle very slightly--Garmin data later showed that I simply continued at 95% of max HR rather than slowly pushing higher--and then kicked it in.
Garmin had my average pace at 7:51. I'd hoped for 7:45s, since my previous best this season, also on a flat Delta course, was 7:47s. But hey: I'll take the win! The last of my life, surely. I'd won a couple of races 10-15 years ago, under similar circumstances--i.e., small field, no good runners--with times around 20 flat. So this is it. Nice to have.
My training over the past several months has been okay, but tailing off over the past month. Had a couple of great runs, though, in Louisville's Cherokee Park. Three laps is exactly 7 miles and you'll get 450 feet of vertical.
Have good runs, all. Keep showing up. You just might win. ;)
nice going! you broke the young guy's spirit apparently.
easy recovery week for me after racing last sunday:
M 1:00 x-t
Tu 1:00 + 30:00 x-t
W 1:30
Th 1:00 + 1:00 x-t
F 1:10 with drills/strides
Sa 1:10 + 1:00 x-t
Su 1:50
looking at a lot of grading this week with onslaught of finals and papers, but after that a more relaxed schedule, with psychotherapy supervision meetings the only regular apptmts. Should be good for training.
Happy May,
Dave
KP: General prescription in my view would be keep volume up, reduce intervals and repetitions add tempos (Daniels’ definition).
Kudzu: Good to see your consistent training rewarded with an excellent race performance.
SCgal: Congratulations on your Sprint Triathlon National title.
Those competing at Hayward, Carlsbad and elsewhere: Look forward to reading about your successes.
Me: Hip improving, painting nearly half finished, hope to return to training mid-June.
Have a good week.
Igy
Orient, nice race effort! Kudzu, a win is a win, great work! KPdx, I know how you feel. I have 3 more weeks until the Carlsbad 5k and feel like I'm starting to skate on the edge of overdoing it. My runs are continuing to get faster, but I had to skip Thursday's workout because I was too tired to do it. I have been trying to run Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday as my effort days since the beginning of the year and sometimes it's a little too much. I have two more careful hard weeks and a week of taper planned. 39 miles this week -
M- 6mi of 400walk/ 400 easy run
T- 8mi hills 8:57/mi
W- 9mi of AM 6mi 400walk/ 400 easy run, PM 3mi walk
Th- rest - tired
F-rest - tired
S- 6mi trails with my son 8:21/mi
Su- 10mi trails 8:43/mi (my last 4 weeks of this Sunday loop have gone 10:20/mi, 9:45/mi, 8:49/mi, 8:43/mi at similar effort levels)
Good running to all!
Last training week before Hayward Field.
Last Sat - 3x1000m with 2 min recovery 3:48, 3:48, 3:45
Sun - 5 miles at 7:45 - Average HR 116
Mon - 4 miles with easy strides at 7:49 - HR 119
Tue - 5.3 miles at 7:21 including 4x4 minutes fast/4 min steady (instead of usual 6x4)
Wed - 3.1 miles at 8:23 - HR 112
Thur - 3.78 miles, including 4 all out short sprints (instead of 6-8)
Fri - 4 miles at 7:54 - HR 116
Sat - 1500m in 5:37 - 200m walk 400m in 88 sec. Felt a bit of training fatigue (12 straight training days, 1 day off in last 19) and leg heaviness going in. On the positive side, the school track I was running on could well be a second a lap slower than Hayward Field, and 5:45/5:50 at halfway would be fine there. Unless I did more speed work, I think I'd be pushing it to run faster than 5:30 for 1500m.
If I could go back 24 hours, I'd start slower and run a 5:45 and (hopefully) feel fairly comfortable.
Not a bad idea for me to do this pre-fatigued though, as I've often done a really good time-trial and then felt tired for the race, and at least this should make the first 1500m at Hayward feel reasonably comfortable. And being pre-fatigued meant I didn't run hard enough to get more than short-term tired.
All being well, this time I should be in that over-compensation window! Looks likes a few of us are walking the over-training/rebound tightrope at the moment.
Congrats. A win is a win, especially when you've worn down someone 30 years younger!
Orient nice ice breaker , low or no impact cross training is goto for most of us old farts still competing. John Keston , one of my favorites and def right up there with Ed passed in Feb
I was lucky enough to meet John as well as so many other GOF Great Old Farts. Actually watched Paul Heitzman set the 3000 M65 10:50 in 1998(thought he was a bit heavy) .
Cavorty opening at 11:45 , Gary is going to be on your heels;) I am feeling pretty good but 11:15 is still looking to be best case but there will be a couple of young masters going a few tics faster and I do enjoy the chase sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bar eats you!
DHaaga, Nice 10k , you have maintained pretty well thru the rehab...btw you ever watch Todd Grande?
KP you always seem to bounce back from brutal workouts OTOH looks like you really slowed down If it were me I would just completely backoff all hard stuff until I felt good / springy.
Allen sub 6 Onward you really are rounding into shape one more time
OG2 your week over week improvements bod well for Carlsbad. Bruce Dern On the Edge was a good one.
Win Lose or Draw this 8 week build to a 3k was a success Onward!
Cavorty...
Sat - 1500m in 5:37 - 200m walk 400m in 88 sec. Felt a bit of training fatigue (12 straight training days, 1 day off in last 19) and leg heaviness going in. On the positive side, the school track I was running on could well be a second a lap slower than Hayward Field, and 5:45/5:50 at halfway would be fine there. Unless I did more speed work, I think I'd be pushing it to run faster than 5:30 for 1500m.
Data:
2:34 on Old Wavy a week later 2:28 at South Eugene.
5:48 on Old Wavy a month later 5:38 at Rex Putnam HS in Portland.
WAG 2 seconds 400?
Charlie wrote:
Cavorty...
Sat - 1500m in 5:37 - 200m walk 400m in 88 sec. Felt a bit of training fatigue (12 straight training days, 1 day off in last 19) and leg heaviness going in. On the positive side, the school track I was running on could well be a second a lap slower than Hayward Field, and 5:45/5:50 at halfway would be fine there. Unless I did more speed work, I think I'd be pushing it to run faster than 5:30 for 1500m.Data:
2:34 on Old Wavy a week later 2:28 at South Eugene.
5:48 on Old Wavy a month later 5:38 at Rex Putnam HS in Portland.
WAG 2 seconds 400?
It very well could be. The three or four strides on the gravel, and a couple of dips on each straight isn't exactly ideal!
That 5:38 mile you did was a really good run #1 in US and #7 in the world last year.
A little bit hard to get back in to track racer mode, having not run a track race for nine years, and having had injuries for most of the time from 60-63. This is the first extend spell of training - about 15 months now - that I've had for a long time.
I'm wanting to try and start out at something reasonable and the pick it up if I feel good. For me, for the moment 11:40s would be a good starting point, and I'd be thrilled if I ran in the 11:30s.
Your 11:15 target would be a very good run, last year would be second fastest in US and about 14 in the world.
That’s awesome! Fun times to win overall no matter what the circumstances are
KudzuRunner, congrats on your overall win! It is considerably more impressive than the one and only overall win (both sexes) that I ever got. I was around 56 at the time, it was a brand new race that was poorly organized and almost completely unpublicized, and they offered both 2 mile and 5 mile distances. I opted for the "longer" race as I always did, and found myself with only four competitors: two women who looked slow, a guy my age or older who looked slow, and a middle-aged guy who looked at least reasonably fit. I dropped middle-aged guy after about a quarter-mile and time-trialed the rest of the course, winning by several minutes. It was fun, and surely won't be repeated!
