50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Training is definitely non-linear after age 60. It' more like a continuous roller coaster ride.

Charlie, I thought the same, stopped it. Hip is doing better, held up throughout several days on a ladder painting. Ran this morning and it was near normal. Sticking with the PT sessions once a week for a bit longer.

Last really serious pre Hayward week of work.

Last Saturday - 8 x 800m - with 2 min jog recovery 3:04, 3:03, 3:02, 2:59
Sunday - Recovery - 4.3 miles at 8:34
Monday - off
Tuesday - 8 miles at 7:19 per mile, including 6x4 minute fast, 4 min steady
Wednesday - Recovery 3.1 miles at 7:49
Thursday - 4 miles including 6 full out short-hill sprints
Friday - Recovery - 3.1 miles at 8:4 per mile
Saturday - 3x1000m with 2 min jog recovery in 3:48, 3:48, 3:44.

Seems a bit light on aerobic, but had been doing several 80 min runs for the mid-March 25k mile trail race that was cancelled, and until the last three weeks aerobic reps on Saturday, either 16x200m with 200m in 60 sec recovery or 12x400m with 400m in 2 min recovery.

Happy with the 1000m reps - would have settled for 3:55 (target is 11:45 - so I'll be watching Charlie from the opposite side of the track) and been very content with 3:50.

Interesting that HR only briefly reached 153, I saw it hit 165 on a hill in a trail race in December, and I think LT is 155ish. I've actually seen it a bit higher at the end of 16x200m.

I'm guessing it's either training fatigue in the legs stopping me pushing up more, and/or I'm just not accessing 'race mode.' I was able to go pretty much straight into a warm-down after the last one, so definitely didn't feel like a race effort would.

I'm just hoping that in a race I can access that last zone of effort/HR. Used to be able to psyche myself up to do that in session, apparently not any more!

Different subject - stunned by Alistair Walker's 34:32 age 65+ 10k. When we were young he was about 3 minutes quicker, now it's more like 6+ mins, I would think.

He was very talented, sub 8:00 3000m, and I suspect his 29:xx 10k when young wasn't a true reflection of his ability.

He is also running 70 miles per week. I think there are a set of masters that were good to very good when young, but are 'super-recoverers' able to maintain a much high mileage than most of use. The 60+ 2:30 marathon runner, Tommy Hughes must be another example.

Personally, I feel like I've done well if I've got to 40 miles in a week.

@Cavorty: when I see you 7:49 pace for recovery on one day between two workouts, then I am thinking: wow this man can recover super quickly.

@Charlie: I like your joy to try out new things. Always interesting! Have a good 3k!

BR from beatiful spring

Greetings!

Congrats to CM on his outstanding (as usual) result at the Boston marathon. Sub 3 at 64 is awesome!
Good to see nice results from ATP, Cavorty, Newbi, Charlie (sorry not to mention all).
My first week of vacation was full of medical procedures to treat several injuries/issues (lower back and legs). Was not even easy to find time slots for training.
Mon – AM: swimming 40 min easy/moderate. PM: 5 miles easy running
Tue – 7 miles incl. 5 times uphill (hard) between 2:40 and 2:44 each
Wed – 6 miles easy
Thu – AM: 35 min swimming easy/moderate. PM: 7 miles: 3k warm-up, then 6k tempo starting @4:20/km (7min/mi) and ending @ 4:07/km (6:38 min/mi), 3K cool down.
Fri – AM: 40 min elliptical easy. PM: 35 min swimming easy/moderate
Sat – copying Thu: 7 miles with 6k tempo in the middle starting @4:16/km (6:55 min/mi) and ending @4:02/km (6:30 min/mi).
Sun – AM swimming 30 min
Subtotal: 32 miles running and 180 min cross training.

In general, transition from skiing to running this year is uneasy this season.

Happy and injury-free running to all!

I find myself smirking and giggling at the depth of running ability on just this one thread. I truly enjoy the speed and success for each of you. Though I don’t think that CM and I have much in common in our respective running: he clearly floats like a butterfly when he runs a sub-3:00 at Boston.
My week:

M- Boston: for the 7th time, I qualified and enjoyed the unique experience

T- came home to my wife now being on semi-permanent disability

W- my wife’s 100-year old granddad who live across the street from us in his own house with no care needed, passed

Th- retirement placed on hold

F- caught up on work matters

Sat- easy, easy, easy 8.5 miles @ 11:25 pace. Was supposed to be only 5 but I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and wound up further out than I planned.
Remainder of April and half of May will remain easy. Gotta respect the little niggles post-Boston.
Enjoy the week

Sorry for your loss, best to your wife.

Dang Charlie...great sessions...Igy, am so glad to hear of your positive direction, Cavorty you are rounding into really nice condition for the 3K, KP what Charlie said...be great to see you in that master's ivite 800 at the June Eugene meet.

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be."- Kahlil Gibran

During this penultimate week prior to turning aged 66, I am tentatively optimistic to report that I maybe just might see a dim light at the far end of my injury tunnel.

As previously reported, I did have a first time visit on Tuesday with an osteopath (whatever that is).

He came highly regarded and referred by both my regular 'rolfing' practioner as well as the cat that I see for A.R.T. (active release therapy).

In our introductory dialogue, he thought that he'd bamboozle me with terms like 'talus' and 'psoas'...but I put up a good debate with the likes of 'kinetic chain', 'cuneiform' and 'peroneal nerve'.

He proceed to manipulate my foot very gently, twisted my head back and forth, touched a few things in my low back that started with the letter L and end with a number...I cannot keep them straight.

At any rate, 30 minutes and 440 clams (not covered by insurance) later, he bid me adieu and confirmed a re-visit two weeks hence.

My overall assessment was that he had some righteous juju, but we'll 'just have to wait and see' before making any bona fide declarations about this path of the osteo stuff.

Managed 20 miles of mediocrity for the week...16 on the treadmill and 4 out on a country road.

I've got intentions of pushing that to 25 for the week upcoming.

Sending everybody good vibes for another swell week of training and racing...and to you Hayward Masters 3Kers, may I remind you that 'the hay is in the barn'

your pal,

MF

Good luck to the impending 3Kers! My training got a little more disrupted than I expected this week. I had Mohs surgery for skin cancer on my head Wednesday. I figured I would miss running just that one day. What I didn't anticipate was that it left my scalp sufficiently sore that I got almost no sleep Wednesday and Thursday nights. In my old age I still can cope well with pain, but not so well with sleep deprivation. I ended up skipping my Thursday workout and my Friday recovery run also. After some long (9hrs+) catch up nights Friday and yesterday I feel back to normal, with Saturday's run going well and this morning's going really well. 35 miles for the week -

M- 6mi of 400 walk/ 400 easy run

T- 8mi hills 9:22/mi

W- off

Th- 4mi of 2mi walk, 2mi 400 walk/ 400 easy run

F- off

S- 7mi trails with my son 8:38/mi

Su- 10mi trails 8:49/mi (there are two 400ft climbs and several rocky technical sections in my route)

Good running and good health to all!

M62, 5'11", 175 lbs
Age 23: 16:05, 2:40:30
Age 43: 17:10, 2:56:03
Age 58: 18:58, 3:07:26

RACE CALENDAR
May 7: Half Marathon
May 29: Marathon

APRIL 18-24, 2022
M -- Off
Tu-- Off
W -- 23.6 miles @ 8:48 avg (9:22 > 8:11)
Th-- Off
Fr -- 5.0 miles @ 8:28 avg (9:02 out, 7:53 back)
Sa-- Off
Su-- 4.0 miles (10:23, 9:51, 9:16, 8:35)
TOTAL: 32.6 MILES

Wednesday's long run went well -- could have kept going and been sub-4 for 26.2. Goal, though, is 3:45. Dream is 3:30. Five weeks to go.

HM is in 13 days. Looking forward to racing. I may schedule a bit of "speedwork" this week -- 6 x 800 or 3 x 1-mile at "5K race pace" whatever that is these days. Feeling like I need to get the legs moving.

Congrats to CM!

Run well.

Did an experiment today to make sure I'm not kidding myself about recovery runs.

So, Steady recovery run of 5 miles, with 88ft ascent/descent, slowing down every time HR reached 120. Ended up with 5 miles at 7:44 per mile and HR average of 116.

That's just borderline on McMillan "Recovery Jog pace by % max HR (upper limit 115) and below the borderline based on HR Reserve (upper limit).

So just based on cardio, 7:45 is a genuine recovery pace. For me it's easier to do that after a shorter faster session (like the 3x1000m) that after a longer run, even if it's lower intensity. The long run - when I do it - is the one that I find toughest.

I'm pretty sure that I'm a slow sprinter with a fairly big V02 Max :)

Hope your recovery from the surgery goes smoothly.

Congrats CM on really impressive Boston. Great job!

Good week for me with return to racing sunday:

M 1:30

Tu 1:30 with drills/strides + 1:00 x-t

W 1:20 double

Th 1:30 + 1:00 x-t

F 50:00

Sa 30:00 + 45:00 x-t

Su 1:15 incl. 10k road (couple hills, but pretty fast course) race 39:46 for 46th OA, 2nd AG (doubt the AG winner Mark Neff heard footsteps -- 3 minutes ahead!)

got out conservatively (7:05 mile, by which I was picking it up some) to make sure hamstring and knee [painful last couple days] ok [they were till last mile and even then not too bad], then a 6:26, then about 6:15's the rest of the way. Very good to be out there racing again.

have a great week,

Dave

Some good runs out there this week. Best wishes to all those experiencing difficulties.

I am finding it challenging to keep the mileage up in combination with racing so I have been generally front-loading the week and swapping an evening jog in place of a walk.

Mon - am 65min, pm 30min

Tues - am 45min including 8x10sec hills, pm 4x1000m on grass (finished with a best of 3:52)

Wed - am 55min, pm 30min

Thurs - am 45min including 6x10sec hills, pm track 5x200m at 1500m pace

Fri - no running

Sat - GB Masters road relays. Our club doesn't have the numbers to put out an M65+ team so I was an M55 for the day. The team of 3 was around mid-table and my 5.1km took 20:15 on a distinctly undulating course so I was satisfied with that.

Sun - am 35min, pm 30min

Total 88km, 55miles

We have the first of our regional Masters T&F League meets this week so the mileage will be much reduced as I am running the M60 mile.

Charlie & Mike... yes re aim for USATF's Invite 800. I've registered with my 2:19 hoping to be selected. King & Blackmore in too. Expecting more talent to sign up. What a coincidence that my fever for masters middle-distance came from an Invite Master's Mile at Hayward Field and Stevenson's Track 20ish years ago! Would be a nice homecoming for sure.

Right on KP...Pat & I will be at our traditional 1500 meter start line seats...I feel a post-meet IPA at Wild Duck coming up

67 yrs old, cancer, 3 knee surgeries in 47th year of training

6 days, 25 miles. Just had 3rd scope done on February 23rd. I am bound and determined to take one day off a week although it’s not great for my mental health.

Very painful and pesky nerve impingement on right foot has presented itself so I did what the foot doctor told me when I got my last cortisone shot in the foot three years ago. “ ice the hell out of it”…. does help.

I don’t like the day off though but I know it helps. At 67 I only have so many running days left and it feels bad to waste a day.

Racing season starts May 15.

3k pre race analysis

Cavorty if I was making book it would be even steven Cavorty vs Charlie ! You have done some really consistent workouts aimed at the 3k. I have as BR said experimented;) I might get one of those little mirrors bike riders attach to their heads so I can keep track of you stocking me;) But wait we might both get blasted by Dan W my old training partner who beat me when it counted! Then you have a super stud record breaker who can kick Gary Patton but he is 75. Good Luck!

Never enough hay in the barn I wish I had a Track Time Trial so I knew kinda sorta where I am at after a few fast laps.

After being super tired last week I am feeling really good wish the race was a week earlier .

Found this stuff interesting . I was tired/fatigued for a week,7days, ending 4/23 so according to this my super comp will last 3 weeks

6. 1:3 RATIO //
The fitness effects of a workout last approximately 3 times longer than the fatigue effects. Once fatigue is gone, the remaining fitness effects equal supercompensation. Use the 1:3 ratio to train in the supercompensation “window”. [6]

Link

runtastic.com

Supercompensation and How to Avoid Overtraining

Abe Ankers

An effective supercompensation strategy can help you maximize fitness gains and avoid overtraining.

Link:www.runtastic.com/blog/en/supercompens...

Hayward Classic tentative meet schedule M30 - M69 3000 2:10

Put us in with the youngsters so instead of lapping we are gonna be getting lapped ;) but what the hay .... speaking of hay I decided to put a bit more in the barn

April 25th Last hard week
Wed 27th 5x1:1 POT(poweroff treadmill) at LT, 2x30 seconds hard 5 min rest

2 hour rain delay

10x300 R10seconds 11:08 pretty even most in 66.xx with last 2 69,64. Hard workout.

I dont' think I can match the 'back class' as we call it in the horse-racing world of your last year's mile (fastest in the US, I believe, and top 10 in the world)!

I'm happy with the way my training has gone though. The 2000m time trial; 4x800m and 3x1000m were all better than I thought I would be able to do. If you would have asked me two months ago, I wouldn't have been sure that I could have broken 3:00 for 800m.

Still going to be conservative and stick with my 11:45 estimate to start with, given this will be first track race since USATF Masters Indoor in 2013. If things went really well and there is a boost from Nike 4% Next and 'Old Wavy' to Dragonfly and Hayward Field, then maybe I can hold my 2000m time trial pace for 3000m.

Interesting piece on supercompensation. I find that getting fit is one thing, getting fit at the right moment, something completely different. Used to be easy in England as a club runner, a lot of club meets and then evening meets that were graded by time, and were more or less time-trials. So if you got fit, sooner or later the time would come. Much more difficult to be ready to run your best on day x.

I've generally messed up and peaked to early - flying two or three weeks out, flat on race day. This time, I've been doing a lot more of the EIM (Easy Interval Method) and only switching to race-pace training late.

I did 4x4 minutes on Tuesday - instead of usual 6 - trying ease back a bit while keeping a slight level of fatigue. Nothing else serious until the race, but will probably try 1500m at target race pace on Saturday, which shouldn't take too much out.

Thought your 10x300m with 10 seconds recovery was impressive - hard to keep stopping and starting like that. I'd have been interested to see how long I could have held.

I was tempted to suggest you go for 10:45 off that - my only shot being if you were to shoot off too quick and blow up. :) Suspect we've all been going far too long and done that a few many times to make the same mistake at this point, though!